Navigation Issue

[rocky289]

Regarding creating a flight plan between airports.
I've been using charts from AIP NZ.
Would be handy for me, if the SID's & STAR's had a map overlay.
That way I would have a better idea of which route to choose.
Is there a site where they can be viewed as such?

[deeknow]

Hey Rocky. There are pay-for (and freebie) flight planning tools that will do more or less what you want, but if you want a simple solution you might look at SkyVector which is a browser based thing in case you haven't seen it. Punch in an airport code (e.g. NZWN) in the form field top left and it will zoom you straight there. You'll see all the high and low level airways and the way-points, VORs etc.

see: https://skyvector.com/

As far as choosing a route goes, I guess you know about the "Standard Route Clearances" documents at AIP? These list the routes usually flown by IFR aircraft from one airport to another.
e.g. http://www.aip.net.nz/pdf/NZWN_61.1_61.2.pdf

The thing is, SIDs wont necessarily match up with a way-point on the airway your intending to fly, usually the SID will direct you to a specific way-point at a certain altitude and from there you are expected to join up with your cleared/planned route which might mean flying DCT to the next or closest way-point on the airway you'd planned to take. Hope that helps, and if you already knew all that stuff, well, no offence

[rocky289]

Hey thanks for that.

I think SkyVector will be helpful.

[Lindstrim]

Skyvector is good, but if you want to recreate an individual flights then look up the flight number on flightaware and they have the SID and STAR that's been issued for the flight and the route clearance that's been given.

Couple of examples,

Link 567 TRG to WLG.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/RLK567
It's been cleared a TGWN3 (H310 RO Y640 CHUTE Y780 TARUA H364 PM V242 DOGAD V112) and a DOGAD3B arrival into WLG (http://aip.net.nz/pdf/NZWN_33.4_33.5.pdf)

Airnz 512 CHC to AKL
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ANZ512
CHAA1 (Y175 OMKUN Y655 POKOM Q277) and a DAVEE4C arrival (http://aip.net.nz/pdf/NZAA_33.15_33.16.pdf) for what appears to be the RNAV Y approach for 23L (http://aip.net.nz/pdf/NZAA_45.3_45.4.pdf)

[rocky289]

Thanks, I'll check that out too.

[towerguy]

there are the odd out of the normal ones to look out for as well

i.e off 05R at night after 10pm we have a lot of noise abatement procedures which can markedly change things. ie
the 'Reckis' departure is not available and traffic CatC and below that is appropriately RNAV equipped will get the Brook departure with a Limes or Kapai transition.
Again there are work arounds - ie if going to PM via Lakes you would either get a Brook SID with 'Expect radar vectors' because Lakes is not a transition off the Brooke, or an Emrag SID or the NZAA2B.


Off 23L the non-RNAV aircraft ie the B1900 are not equipped and so we give those aircraft 'at 500ft turn left heading 190 maintain 3000ft to 10AA DME (southbound) or
'at 500ft turn right heading 270 maintain 3000ft to 10AA DME' for the northbound. (Domestic turboprop or below only.) Then they are picked up by radar and given further.

just some extras for you
cheers

[Lindstrim]

Off 23L the non-RNAV aircraft ie the B1900 are not equipped and so we give those aircraft 'at 500ft turn left heading 190 maintain 3000ft to 10AA DME (southbound) or 'at 500ft turn right heading 270 maintain 3000ft to 10AA DME' for the northbound. (Domestic turboprop or below only.) Then they are picked up by radar and given further.

Someone keeps forgetting that, last couple of clearance's I've gotten they've given me a Clark1p either Tulmi or Lakes transition. Little chuckle each time

[towerguy]

not surprised - I do it myself at times.
As this is an exception and we have been told numerous times that it is about to be fixed ie Eagle will fly the SID, the "revised" clearance is not entered automatically into the electronics.
Instead we have to ignore the one that is written on the electronic clearance box in front of you and read it off a strip at the bottom of the board. When you are busy with a lot of clearances or trying to do the other half dozen jobs on delivery at the same time it is easy to overlook the "it's a Beech" and just hook into the clearance, usually you realize what you have done as you are half way through but by then it's easier to just finish it and correct later.
boils down to " happens."
cheers

[rocky289]

Now, thats getting a bit technical for me fellas.

[towerguy]

you are right - it is pretty technical

sometimes it even drags me away from the sport section of the Herald!!!!!!!!!

[Ian Warren]

you are right - it is pretty technical

sometimes it even drags me away from the sport section of the Herald!!!!!!!!!

... Sorry ... but that was funny ... quite a few year back we had Nick Beatty regularly stop here and we organize a multi-play were Nick was an upcoming ATC guy , last I heard he is based in Christchurch here but when training his base off operation and training or first assignment was Dunedin , the great thing Nick started to teach but also we had follow procedure using the AIP charts - rather a VATSIM approach it was a teaching both him and offered help for the other new to it ... it was a great few months/year.

[Lindstrim]

It's what happens when two people start talking about their real life jobs.

[towerguy]

but ATC is not really a job - at least according to my son. He's 25 now but when he was a still a tot and they
were asking the kids what their fathers did for work, my son piped up...

"Oh no, my daddy doesn't work, he just talks to aeroplanes..."

I've never been allowed to forget it!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ian Warren]

KIDS! , My oldest brothers wife Jodi was ATC, because she was from Wagga Wagga , when the lighties got lost she knew the landmarks so well that literary talked the plane home , ... wouldn't hard to pick her out off a crowd , she had this real Aussie twang .