ORBX Mesh

[Ian Warren]

The perfect mesh or not , Ive lived in Christchurch now for fifty years , 49.5 off those i spent at the airport , But really to my knowledge Christchurch airport from
the viewing deck in the 1960s right up until round 1978 you could almost see to the backbone off the South Island , the Alps , you could see the Riccarton
racecourse grandstand and you could see the University , the airport was not in a 5 meter sink around the airport perimeter and it deepens as you head north .
Today the trees has taken over from the landmarks and now sit in behind the 20 years of growth .

The VLC Mesh was very much exact , the photo wrapped around Banks Peninsular without any or little notice , Now with the so called ORBX mesh and
apparently more accurate so says the company , the so called (10 meter mesh) look at the result

I checked it to compare to the against the inland join to the major roads and railway lines , This proves it is not the photo .

Checking all corners of the photo , but appears ORBX was trying to be more technical but proved to be completely incorrect on the eastern shore line and
the heads of the Peninsular .

Dont look at Autogen as mentioned this is a huge task and i have not spent time on it recent .

The one thing the ORBX texture really works in this area and the photo blends in well

A lot has to be said for the so called better than VLC in respect to the meshes , I was told the Data is the same , unless it is 10 meter how can this change to
a point were the prove off a photo is there .

The one fix that can be done is to take a portion from the free earthquake photo and place it , this would be a higher resolution and would enhance the Sumner
region
The point is , I wonder who really beta tested the well known piece of rock , proves ORBX not can but dose get it wrong big time

[Adamski]

Ian ... please don't take this the wrong way ... I don't mean to be offensive

I find this sort of post very confusing - as I can't work out what pic relates to what (!!). I think anyone that develops scenery needs to be careful when taking screenshots - as they often have "test" or "on-going" work installed that may be affecting things. I think uncle Doug had some weird conflicts as well.

I was intrigued by your Banks Peninsula pic ... could it possibly be *that* bad? So I fired mine up:


This is just, NZSI and VLC enabled (but lower priority than NZSI). When I toggled VLC on/off, a few individual trees moved around, but nothing else changed. No photo-real textures in either pic.


The above is the same area but this time with VLC only - NZSI turned off, but ORBX autogen objects still set to Oceania.

I've no idea which of the two is more "realistic", as I've never been to that area in RL, let alone fly over it

I'd hate to see NZFF degenerate into a ORBX/VLC pi**ing contest - which appears to be how your post comes across <???>. No offence meant. I'm sure there are many NZSI "horrors" out there, but VLC isn't perfect either

Confused? I know I am!

[Ian Warren]

All points of reference is like spreading your hand out wide , each is a Main Road heading North , Northwest , West , Southwest , South , your five finger spread , each road is label for the Geography lessor dose not have a map can now find each main road leading out off the city Bar the Eastern side which now has changed so much .

How can a mesh change when the data come form the very same place , is there 10 meter mesh , If so - where do you get it ? . What you show is default , not a photo wrapped on a mesh . This problem also occurs in many other places , most are areas are fine but some have this very same problem .

This , the VLC shows a different story , there still are a few errors but not as pronounced as it is now with ORBX

If i was to finger five VLC, North , Northwest , West , Southwest , South , the roads blend exactly the same position

This is the same photo and scenery , and the issue the circle was fixed like below until i either brought Global Mapper and have a new photo place. I simply did a fix and worked better than the $NZ400 dollar cost of GM .


SO WHOS DATA IS CORRECT AND WHOS IS NOT , you may want to check the last screen to GOOGLE EARTH , you will notice the housing stagger down the side of the point , default autogen is well least to say not as accurate as photo placed autogen .

The point off this exercise is to get a fix because you cannot mention this over at the ORBX forum or site due to ..... well its ORBX ..... the post simply gets deleted .

[toprob]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Jan 19 2012,1:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd hate to see NZFF degenerate into a ORBX/VLC pi**ing contest - which appears to be how your post comes across <???>. No offence meant. I'm sure there are many NZSI "horrors" out there, but VLC isn't perfect either

Ian's post really relates to 'developer frustrations', which I've certainly been guilty of myself. From a user point of view NZSI is the most complete -- and pretty -- package for the South Island, but it isn't designed for outside developers to add to. Making stuff 'fit' is a real issue -- I'm used to being able to drop a geo-referenced photo into the sim and have it match the mesh -- I just took it for granted that this would work every time with VLC -- but as Ian discovered it isn't possible with NZSI. This is only really a problem around cliff/coast areas. The Real NZ Nelson area just before Cable Bay has some nice cliffs, which work particularly well with the VLC mesh, but suffer from that horrible water ride-up with the Orbx mesh. It is this two steps forward/one back which is frustrating.

So maybe we need some way to label threads like this -- "***Beware: Developer rant!***"

At the moment I'm looking at reducing the amount of photo scenery in some areas to overcome this, and the good news is that with NZSI this can work well once a few issues are ironed out -- as Mike said, the best of both worlds.

I am getting close to releasing a compatibility patch for Nelson, but I'm also working on an update which reduces the photo coverage to the city only. This overcomes the inevitable patchy quality of the aerial images. I've included a screenshot which shows the Real NZ Nelson airport with NZSI hills in the background. The initial patch won't allow for this, it'll be a separate update later on.

[Ian Warren]

Pretty Screen Rob

[Adamski]

QUOTE (toprob @ Jan 19 2012,10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So maybe we need some way to label threads like this -- "***Beware: Developer rant!***"

... certainly I think an intro on what was going on - that this was work "in development". I couldn't work out why we were seeing photo-real images - and also which screenpic showed which.

Having said that, I'm still confused! My screenshot with VLC only shows the same elevation <??>. Is the issue the actual cliffs (the area being unnaturally high) or the blending between cliffs/shoreline etc.?

Question: When you have "Oceania" selected in ORBX, does that mean it uses its own/different mesh? If so, that would explain why my VLC shot looks so similar. I thought the switcher just changed autogen textures, and the mesh comes from the NZSI layers <??>.

Forgot to add: Your screenpic, Rob ... I thought it was actually a *real* photo at the bottom, with FSX/NZSI hills in the background!

Also - when I have your NZNS sat over the top of NZSI, I get an annoying pyramid shaped lump at the eastern end of the runway ... do you get that?

[Naki]

Is it possible to get a summary (in seperate thread - maybe pinned) of what Realnz and Creators airports (and other freeware airports) are now compatible with Orbx NZSI and whats in the works to make it compatible as Im a little lost.

[creator2003]

VLC is 20 meter mesh which is from NZ data ,FTX NZSI is the same data and pulled by hand from my understanding to 10meter ,so kinda a fake 10m advertising unless im proven wrong by someone explaining how they made 10 outta 20 meter data which from my knowledge is the only data available to NZ other than the 2meter wellington stuff which Timmo has done already ,id say if Timmo thought that doing what they did was the right correct look he would have ,he is the expert in this area of ARC which was his RW job at one point for NZ council

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Jan 19 2012,12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Also - when I have your NZNS sat over the top of NZSI, I get an annoying pyramid shaped lump at the eastern end of the runway ... do you get that?

I have exactly the same settings as yourself Adam , this is the new little bit i am mentioning about the Mesh , your lovely little pyramid courtsey of ORBX and their wonderful mesh , this so call mesh is directly the cause of the problems all over NZSI , no such thing as a 10 meter mesh , its simply been manipulated to create these headaches , you will find if you own many more , ie: Marlborough would also have huge discrepancy,s all over the three designed airports .

[creator2003]

Not sure about others but im making all i have made before compatible for NZSI via merged objects with there NOZ airports ,NZNI will be the same deal i will replace all there NOZ airports to Photoreal buildings which are the true representation of what should be there ,i have the bonus of not being hooked to ether platforms via any commitment so will do as i wish and make sure you all dont have to spend mega bucks again unless you wish too of course ..

[Ian Warren]

That works perfect Mike , cut out the guts and works brilliant , why all current and workable scenery that accessible was not used , example Christchurch , so much for the grand ORBX beta testing team ! now whats the fix Follow Kelvins original post in cutting out textures to suit , or ....

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Naki @ Jan 19 2012,12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Im a little lost.

If you have all the scenery for the South Island installed , every drop , snipet bit and piece the mistakes start showing , it now its got to be fixed on all current ,least access scenery and recent pre-released scenery or what going to happen is everyone will have a different version and when you go muiltiplay people could be sitting at half a dozen other levels ( AGLs ) .

[toprob]

QUOTE (Naki @ Jan 19 2012,12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is it possible to get a summary (in seperate thread - maybe pinned) of what Realnz and Creators airports (and other freeware airports) are now compatible with Orbx NZSI and whats in the works to make it compatible as Im a little lost.

This will happen, at the moment there's nothing of mine which is officially patched for NZSI. The first will be Nelson, and I hope to have it out in the next few days. Next is Southern Lakes, that's ready to go except for one minor but tricky adjustment. (I've put this aside in the hope that a solution will appear while I sleep.) Although Southern Lakes has been demoted to 'legacy' (marketing-speak for old) it still has a lot of nice features, such as the airshow, so it's worth putting some time into a patch.

I haven't even looked at Marlborough yet. When you look at what Orbx included in their Marlborough airfields etc, they've done a good job of matching points of interest -- they have included most objects which I have included in my scenery, no more, no less, except for the photo textures, so it may just get a quick and dirty patch. The original attraction of this package was the huge photo scenery area, but this is it's weakest feature now, based on low-res, rough quality aerials.

I'm already mentioned that Nelson will get an FTX-compatible makeover after the patch. It won't include FTX features, as that is not allowed, but I'm aiming for a fairly seamless airport/city blend into NZSI.

QUOTE (creator2003 @ Jan 19 2012,12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

VLC is 20 meter mesh which is from NZ data ,FTX NZSI is the same data and pulled by hand from my understanding to 10meter ,so kinda a fake 10m advertising unless im proven wrong by someone explaining how they made 10 outta 20 meter data which from my knowledge is the only data available to NZ other than the 2meter wellington stuff which Timmo has done already ,id say if Timmo thought that doing what they did was the right correct look he would have ,he is the expert in this area of ARC which was his RW job at one point for NZ council

FTX scenery has always been designed to be a separate, stand-alone scenery product, they don't take into account what already exists, and they don't offer it as a 'base' for anyone to build on. They have their own design methods -- most of which I understand, they are there to overcome FSX limitations which users notice the most. So users have asked for one complete solution, nice to look at, plenty of green, etc. That's what they get. Resampling the mesh to 10 metres is actually a good idea -- you can leave VLC active for the North Island, and the mesh won't interfere with the South Island. (You can't mix and match meshes here, as each has topo elements tied to the mesh.)

You can't blame a company for taking advantage of things like this when it comes to promotion -- advertising is designed to sell product, not tell the truth. Orbx wasn't the first to bring marketing-speak to FS, but they do it best. Remember texture-flow? In the end it doesn't matter how accurate the mesh is, unless you are trying to fit a photo to the coastline. Since this is not encouraged by Orbx, you can't blame them for making this tricky -- it isn't a fault, it's a feature!

[NZ255]

Have you figured out how "texture flow" works/does?

[captainherc]

I know nothing about textures, mesh, agn and am happy with my VLC with all of Mikes and Robs great sceneries they make. I do not think I will purchase NZSI so VLC all the way for me. Please keep making your wonderful scenery for this and releive me of any headache needed to blend the two.

[Bazza]

QUOTE (captainherc @ Jan 19 2012,7:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know nothing about textures, mesh, agn and am happy with my VLC with all of Mikes and Robs great sceneries they make. I do not think I will purchase NZSI so VLC all the way for me. Please keep making your wonderful scenery for this and releive me of any headache needed to blend the two.

I'm pleased to see I'm not alone.......

Remember when we were more interested in the aircraft than whether or not our cousin's barn was visible from 1000 feet....?

The recent postings on NZSI/VLC have come pretty close to me giving the whole drama away and reverting to my comprehensive FS9.

Settle down guys.....

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE

The recent postings on NZSI/VLC have come pretty close to me giving the whole drama away and reverting to my comprehensive FS9[/quote]

i had that thought too ,mine was stopping all together and getting into my real job more fulltime ,25 a hour is better than a couple of headaches a week though this is my true passion and hobbie im not going to let others ruin it for me ,i have been caught up a little with this rivalry between the two landclass as it effects the vision i had and the mass amounts of work ive done , so yeah very guilty and sorry i made others feel this way while i had a paddy .

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Bazza @ Jan 19 2012,7:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Remember when we were more interested in the aircraft than whether or not our cousin's barn was visible from 1000 feet....?

See even you got it wrong Baz ... its the cousins Bar we are looking for !

[creator2003]

Lol if i had found that bar i would have been banned here along time ago ,lucky i put coke and V drink machines instead .

[captainherc]

I think Bazza had it right. Forget who's is best. Make each product for the MESH that you thick gives the best results and leave it at that. If some like what you make but do not have that mesh or what ever, then they either miss out our have to get the other guys mesh that way they can have all the eye candy. At 3000ft there is not much detail to see. After 20+ years flying around the NI, even VFR you fly mostly 2500 to 3000 or above on X countries so detail etc is not essential, except main roads, HT lines and rivers. Guys get a grip and do what you do best. MAKE GRAET SCENERY. Decide on a platfom and run with it. Who cares who's is best. Thats for the punters to decide. If yours is great for VLC in you eyes then thats what matters. If in NZSI then thats OK too. Either way be happy and satisfied in what you created and savour in the knowledge that your scenery has given pleaseure to those who downloaded it to make their FS time more enjoyable. If you bother too much on merging VLC with NZSI then that will take away all your time and ideas, and all you will want to do is one up the opposition. In the end everyone even you the designer lose. You guys with the talent and time your prepared to put in have given the rest of us GREAT SCENERY addons which for without you we would be stuck with the standard FSX default. So from me to you forget who's best, do what YOU think is right and run with it. Now for more important things to do like plan an air show routene for the RNZAF MP day. Thats fisrt rant on the forums so take heed of what can come.
Adrian.