Future of MS Flight Sim

[jastheace]

The Facts Emerge - The future of MS Flight Simulation


found this on avsim, looks like what we had suspected, will be intresting to see how this develops in the future, for me it means that i will be staying with FSX for quite some time.

[creator2003]

Well like ,,,Id really like them to make whatever whenever and see how it goes as gaming is jumping 100 steps at a time these days and when that time comes im sure some will make the move some will not or they would of moved on to other sims that come out ...

[toprob]

(I've changed the post to link to Avsim's news story, rather than an entire copy/paste.)

Hmm, I'd be very wary of accepting this as the definitive statement on the future of FS -- just because it highlights the word 'fact' three times doesn't make it so:) The first 'fact' is speculation, the second appears to be true, the third is meaningless -- no one really expected MS to up and sell MSFS, surely?

The comparison to the iphone is kind of bizarre, my understanding of Windows Live is based on Xbox Live, which is certainly nothing like how Apple market iphone apps. I can buy a game for Xbox Live -- say Guitar Hero -- which I buy on DVD from a local shop. I can then download addon content, such as songs and albums, either as freebies or by paying online. Certainly nothing to get freaked about, that's pretty much what we do with flightsim now.

There is certainly reason to speculate that addons to any future 'Windows Live' simulator would need to be approved somehow by Microsoft, but that can benefit the user more than it hinders. Developers would be required to support their products, otherwise they just can't sell anything. There are a few developers at the moment who would need to get their act together to continue selling their products.

I do think that the next FS will be significantly changed from what we know, but that is true of any game like this. If you were transported from the 80s or 90s to today, you would not recognise the sim. You would, however, be blown away by the modern version.

There are some weird threads going on, a lot at Avsim, but a lot of these people are just doing what simmers do best -- letting off steam, over-reacting, and fearing any change. Some play devil's advocate, and attempt to inflame others by worst-case scenarios, but that's all part of the fun.

[ardypilot]

In the Microsoft Flight Simulator 11 - what do you want to see in it? topic, I said the only suggestion I have to solve the lack of accurate details in every country outside the states would be for the Ace's developers to create localized versions of the next flightsim, maybe one for each continent or geographical region which you can buy separately.

And although most of the news story on avsim has been written from a rather negative angle, this short section below could be the positive beginnings to my suggested comment above:

QUOTE

Imagine for a moment a “liveâ€￾ simulator that has as its core a “Flight Unlimitedâ€￾ like virtual world. You can fly around a very small part of the world in the default system, but to add to your simulation world, you have to purchase the additional scenery from MS.[/quote]

I know I'm paraphrasing here- but all I'm suggesting is that there are bound to be pros (as well as cons) with any future developments from MS... lets just wait and see what we get served!

Last edited by ardypilot on Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Christian]

Completely agree with Robin and Andrew on this one - I for one are excited at what the live system could bring. Sure, it's going to be different, but as Robin said, things change. I believe some people are freaking out (and Tom from avsim obviously too) how this is going to affect them. Truth is many long standing sites and developers are still stuck in the early 2000s and fear having to move with the times...

[cowpatz]

Christian I wouldn't hold your breath. Anything involving "windows live" will be a disaster. Tried the mail service?....slow and buggy and full of advertising c##p..
With the state of broadband in this country it would be a stuttering joke unless you lived next door to the exchange.
I can see an endless requirement to put your hand in your pocket and fork out cash just for basic flying. Subscription based with limited add ons and at a healthy price.
Plenty of scope anyway for competition to expand....maybe an improved x plane or a newcomer, perhaps from the ashes of ACES (restraint of trade contracts my preclude this).

[SUBS17]

Well this looks interesting since FO will use subscription at least it will have a better setup than what I've just seen on that article. On the plus side is the income generated by subscription actually makes the game have a better future since there is a continuous flow of money by users. It also blocks pirate copys since the players have to login. Good income insures a continuous improvement to the sim on the negative is the red tape I think there is alot of potential there to improve FS there to a level where its more imersive but they should have a system in place to allow high quality addons and repaints for normal use and experimental or low quality stuff used on a separate type of server. IMO FOs subscription is much better and I think their sim has more potential than MSFS has and I wouldn't be surprised if most of the MSFS guys switch to FO after its released. Xplane is another possibility as the new top dog for civi flight sim. So all this must be because of MSESP2 then pity since that could also have had alot of potential.

[toprob]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Feb 10 2009, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Christian I wouldn't hold your breath. Anything involving "windows live" will be a disaster. Tried the mail service?....slow and buggy and full of advertising c##p..
With the state of broadband in this country it would be a stuttering joke unless you lived next door to the exchange.
I can see an endless requirement to put your hand in your pocket and fork out cash just for basic flying. Subscription based with limited add ons and at a healthy price.
Plenty of scope anyway for competition to expand....maybe an improved x plane or a newcomer, perhaps from the ashes of ACES (restraint of trade contracts my preclude this).

I don't think we can try to guess what form this will take when/if a flight simulator is ever released under the Windows Live banner -- a lot can happen in half a decade, and I suspect that's the minimum time before we see a sim. Trying to second-guess the sim is one thing, trying to guess where Microsoft are heading with Live, while great for the imagination, serves no useful purpose. Who would have thought when Vista was released that MS would one day be on track to release the leaner, meaner, more 'appropriate' Windows 7? (Ok, they still have time to make it unusable, but I'm an optimist.)

I'm not convinced either way on a subscription service -- I do pay a subscription to Xbox Live, and that seems to be a very nice system. Less than $2 per week, for something which just works, rather than the fiddly steps I'd need to take to play online on the PC, seems like a real bargain. Sure, you can pay for other content, but you can also choose not to. You can also take the free subscription option, albeit without the ability to play online. I hardly ever play online, but the kids play Halo and Guitar Hero online quite often, and it does seem to work well enough.

If MS had 5 years to work on the Live experience before I need to 'subscribe' to use FS, then I'd hope that there'd be some improvement in there somewhere, even if it's just my internet bandwidth. That's certainly improved dramatically over the last 5 years.

[Christian]

Last time I checked Windows Live is free for PC Games, so there aren't any subscription fees. Plus, flying together with XBox fans might an interesting addition.

Other games work seamlessly with a similar concept. I've played Steam games, Spore, and Telltale games all of which feature some form of Internet connection. I've never had any problems - the games still run locally on your hardrive, in fact you can run the games without being connected. All the Live thing does is give you some extra features.

Let's not start bashing a product that doesn't even exist yet.

[Christian]

Incidentally, Tim Gregson (one of the 6 Aces standing) just posted this at avsim:

"Even before everything that happened last month, FS11 was going to be a Game for Windows Live program. This was to replace GameSpy (you know, that thing you all complained about and said we definitely had to replace next time around : ), providing the same matchmaking/buddy list/chatting/etc type services that GameSpy currently does (and yes, there would have been additional uses probably, like hooking the awards you can currently get in FSX to your gamertag, so they are stored in the cloud) - but that doesn't mean it still wouldn't work standalone (most users of FSX never use the MP features and I would wager there's a fairly large percentage who don't even know it has MP features), that you still couldn't do Direct IP connections and LAN connections for MP, etc."

[deaneb]

Well the only fact as far as I am concerned is - massive changes are coming!
How big and when is yet to be seen. In the mean time, not much can be done.

What concerns me the most is whether a new simulation will be freeware compliant. If not then the inability for people like myself and others to input into the hobby will adversely effect the appeal to many users. I think MS would have to think pretty hard about that as it would impact sales.
Secondly - once a new sim is in the wings, it would be nice to know what compatibility this will have with anything we have now in FSX? Without knowing if GMAX or FSDS3.5 FSX compatible modelling can be used in the future may put the brakes on any future plans I have for freeware aircraft and scenery. Thats not to say I'm looking too far ahead, as I will try to finish stuff i still have going for FSX.

Deane

[Njbb1995]

What stuff have you got planned for FSX? (sorry O/T)

[deaneb]

QUOTE (njbb1995 @ Feb 10 2009, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What stuff have you got planned for FSX? (sorry O/T)

I've got to finish the Para drop Fletchers. I have a Cresco barely started and a small airfield Hawera which is 80 % done. I live in Blenheim but work during the week in Wellington, which severly limits my design time. Although my laptop runs FSDS, the small 15" screen makes it hard work. Add into that weekends at home in the summer catching up with family and it all adds up to zip FS development for the last 5 months !!

[ZK-Brock]

Let's not forget that the CURRENT FS is not dead. FS9 is still widely used, and FSX will still be around for the next few years (are they still selling it?)

Its all well & good to go OMGWTFBBQ FS is dead!!!11! but it's not at all from where I'm standing. Freeware developers will continue to support FSX. Like Christian says, let's wait and see and not judge too soon.

[Snowman]

QUOTE

What concerns me the most is whether a new simulation will be freeware compliant. If not then the inability for people like myself and others to input into the hobby will adversely effect the appeal to many users. I think MS would have to think pretty hard about that as it would impact sales.[/quote]

Some people have reported that other games on Live allow for freeware. I'd say it's very likely this is going to continue after reading Tim Gregson's remarks. I more and more get the feeling that this whole Live thing will turn out to be a really small side feature.

QUOTE

Secondly - once a new sim is in the wings, it would be nice to know what compatibility this will have with anything we have now in FSX? Without knowing if GMAX or FSDS3.5 FSX compatible modelling can be used in the future may put the brakes on any future plans I have for freeware aircraft and scenery. Thats not to say I'm looking too far ahead, as I will try to finish stuff i still have going for FSX.[/quote]

I wouldn't put my hopes high on that one. Phil Taylor indicated months ago that backward compatibility may be a thing of the past for FS11. But I guess anything is possible at this stage.

Christian

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[omitchell]

Will there or won't there be another FS? I don't think that matters that much. Right now we have 2 great products in front of us. FS9 & FSX. Many developers freeware or payware should be able to keep themselves busy with that lot.

However in the same breath I do feel a void left by the dismissal of the Aces team. as I know personally redundancy is never good. BUT......

With the huge range of quality designers out there we should be able to honour the Aces crew by still cranking out the high standard add-ons we can and do create every day. Take a look at our own Snowman, his contributions are invaluable. Ian Wright & Robin Corn? Damn!!! Maybe we shouldn't panick, instead take what comes and support those that deliver it and as a result FS will be there, Aces or not...

Regards,
Owen

[Snowman]

QUOTE (omitchell @ Feb 11 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Will there or won't there be another FS? I don't think that matters that much. Right now we have 2 great products in front of us. FS9 & FSX. Many developers freeware or payware should be able to keep themselves busy with that lot.

However in the same breath I do feel a void left by the dismissal of the Aces team. as I know personally redundancy is never good. BUT......

With the huge range of quality designers out there we should be able to honour the Aces crew by still cranking out the high standard add-ons we can and do create every day. Take a look at our own Snowman, his contributions are invaluable. Ian Wright & Robin Corn? Damn!!! Maybe we shouldn't panick, instead take what comes and support those that deliver it and as a result FS will be there, Aces or not...

Regards,
Owen

Id agree,........ both FS9 and FSX are superb in their own ways.
Im trying to decide whether to go to X-Plane 9, or FSX.
Certainly, FS9 has been given a new longer lease on life, and i will continue to develop scenery for it.
If i go to FSX,...... obviously,, i'll be building for that, as well as FS9.
I reckon, per capita, we have the greatest team of FS developers in the world, right here in li'l 'ole NZ.........
In FS9 anyway, we have taken what was one of the worst, ugliest, and most underdetailed, underdeveloped, and hopelessly inaccurate countries in the FS world, and turned it into what i believe, is one of the BEST, from both sides of the fence, Payware and Freeware.
From what ive seen of some of the FSX addons ive seen for NZ so far,..... its not too far behind FS9 in the default "ugly" stakes........
BOTH sims can only get better........

Lawrie.

[omitchell]

Your 150% right. The devlopers like yourself here in Kiwiland also seem to produce the best quality for add-on's for FSNZ, and have done since FS98 (Damn I'm old lol).

[Timmo]

QUOTE

Your 150% right. The devlopers like yourself here in Kiwiland also seem to produce the best quality for add-on's for FSNZ,[/quote]

Thats nice to hear and there is so much addons coming this year this whole Aces thing really is a non event, we shouldnt really worry about what could be and keep up the great work we are doing here in NZ...

We have two good platforms and one is really only just come out in many peoples minds so there is at least 6 years of use left to tap into its designed engine ...

[Timmo]

I think we can be thankful for the MS/Aces strategy which writes the sim versions with capabilities that aren't/weren't able to be used on todays hardware.

This 'future proofing' means that we, for the most part, will still be able to develop aircraft and scenery for the sim for many years into the future without it feeling 'dated'- What would FSnext provide as upgrade for scenery? Terrain resolution greater than a FSXs' 1 meter? Data better than that doesn't really exist. Imagery better than 7cm? ditto....and even then there is the Fs2002 workaround. About the only things lacking, in terms of features, are sloped runways? Almost everything else is able to be tweaked using the SDK...

Certainly from my perspective, there are many things I'd like to include in the upcoming NZ environment upgrade but have been umming and ahhing about because of performance considerations (i.e. fencelines). Now, I may be able to include them, as an option (probably turned off by default) so that future computers can display them if they have the grunt......

If a new version was imminent, I probably wouldnt have worried about spending time creating these features knowing that most people would never use them since by the time their hardware was good enough they would be using FSnext.

So personally, im happy for no new versions for at least a few more years. It gives developers the stability and certainty they need (which seems ironic)...scenery development takes time and with the next version of the sim 'looming' with promises of no backwards capability, many developers I think had an attitude of 'why bother' with FSX....It gives us time. The engine base is good/powerful, it just needs more addons built for it which will come with time.