This is HUGE - Rumour says ACES are fired!

[Timmo]

QUOTE

Perhaps a new company taking over FS would be just what we needed? Somebody that actually listens to our requests![/quote]

I think they have done well over the pass 20 years and have pleased most of there users ,its just the ones that will never be happy/moan and dont understand the way these things are designed or the work involed in designing a platform .."i wouldnt listen to moaners to much "
I dont think MS will sell there rights over to another company i think they have just put a hold on it till another time slot ,,just like all the things been said about it above who would in there right mind , sell a product like this ,,i reakon they are just letting FSX run its course and will bring it back like nothing else before

Last edited by creator2003 on Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Timmo]

Indeed- If the request is 'I want it to look like Crysis, cover the whole world and run at 60fps on my 3ghz single core machine' then I wouldn't imagine any company would be able to deliver.

Remember also that ESP2 is still under development and this, of course, is the 'heart' of the simulators now (TS, ESP and FS)....so hopefully it should be too difficult for a new team to come and develop on top of that engine.

[Christian]

Timmo, ESP is also axed. There are only 6 people of the whole ACES team left, and they're kept for 6 months to backup the complete source code (ESP, FS and TS) and tie up running ESP contracts. At this moment all we're left with is a strategic "we're committed to flying games" which really may mean anything and as inside info confirms, MS themselves have absolutely no clue at this stage what they're going to do. It's hard to know anything definite, because everyone is under NDA, but it seems that some core members are still employed by MS and have to find new jobs within MS within the next 6 months. That's why no one is spilling the beans.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Christian @ Jan 27 2009, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At this moment all we're left with is a strategic "we're committed to flying games" which really may mean anything...

Exactly - it could be referring to more flight simulators built into MS Excel and nothing more.

As for a 'where to?', the conclusion i've come to over the last couples of days is that FS will keep its market share provided it continues to be available on the shelves in retailers. Most of us here are feeling the 'ouch' as a result of this news, but Sam Smith, aged 14, who is developing a real interest in flying and wants to be able to experience it on his parents' PC couldn't care less if ACES has been closed. Sam doesn't care that FS11 has just become the industry's latest vapourware, he just walks into a shop and buys what is on the shelves.

Those who want a flight simulator will keep buying FS. Staunch users, like most of us here will remain FS users. Add-on developers will continue to push out add-ons for FS.

I believe one of two things has to change in order for status quo to shift.

1) MS stop selling FSX
2) X-Plane markets aggressively into the consumer space

None of these are dependent on users buying add-ons or developers producing them. Why? Because I think both those factors are totally irrelevant in terms of the market share a product has. FSX is a seller because people are buying it. That has nothing to do with add-ons. It's all about new customers. If X-Plane is agressively pushed into the consumer space, with the right marketing campaign they could persuade Sam Smith to spend his cash on their offering as opposed to Microsoft's.

It's like why people buy Windows - what else can they buy for their PC? If MS stopped developing it but kept selling it, users wouldn't just announce "oh, I think I'll switch to Linux". One of the Linux distro manufacturers would have to market in order to break the 'buy Windows' cycle.

However.... the wildcard in all of this is that X-Plane is typically associated with Apple Computers. Apple are a company who seem to be able to push a terribly incomplete or limiting product out into the market and not only get away with it, but in doing so gain an astronomical amount of interest from people who simply want to do nothing productive other than 'use their Apple'. If the unjustified hype that surrounds OSX gravitates toward X-Plane, then things could be very different.

[Christian]

Well, if it weren't for FSX I'd agree. However, we had 2 interesting developments over the last year.

1) Traffic to FS sites like avsim has shrunk by a third and more. A bulk of the fan base are losing interest in FS. And the trend seems to continue.

2) Amazon.com sells more copies of FS9 (#20 PC games) than FSX (#25 PC games). Amazon is a pretty good indicator of the general marketplace.

Now, I don't think it's time to panic. Things will change a bit for sure, but there'll always be a dedicated group just like there's one for Grand Prix Legends.

On the upside it looks like a bulk of the Aces team may continue in other roles at MS which means that they're not gone for good, so maybe in two years the group will reform. Some sources report that old standing members from sublogic were still on the team, but according to my research today, the core consists of people from FS2000 and FS97 days.

[Timmo]

QUOTE

Timmo, ESP is also axed[/quote]
Oh really? I didnt realise that- I thought ESP was continuing under a different banner/development path.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Christian @ Jan 27 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if it weren't for FSX I'd agree. However, we had 2 interesting developments over the last year.

1) Traffic to FS sites like avsim has shrunk by a third and more. A bulk of the fan base are losing interest in FS. And the trend seems to continue.

2) Amazon.com sells more copies of FS9 (#20 PC games) than FSX (#25 PC games). Amazon is a pretty good indicator of the general marketplace.

Now, I don't think it's time to panic. Things will change a bit for sure, but there'll always be a dedicated group just like there's one for Grand Prix Legends.

On the upside it looks like a bulk of the Aces team may continue in other roles at MS which means that they're not gone for good, so maybe in two years the group will reform. Some sources report that old standing members from sublogic were still on the team, but according to my research today, the core consists of people from FS2000 and FS97 days.

I think it's still all about hardware requirements for FSX. I know it's a far better product than FS9, but still can't justify the cost of suitable hardware in order to run the same complexity of add-ons as I am used to running on FS9 at the detail I like. Once the marketplace fills up with FSX-capable hardware in the secondhand space (usually gear coming off 3-year leases and being resold) this could change. When was FSX released? We can't be too far away from that stage.

[Michael]

http://www.fsinsider.com/news/Pages/AMessageFromAces.aspx

Have we seen this yet?

"we remain committed to the Flight Simulator franchise for the long term."

They probably are coming back

[spongebob206]

QUOTE (Michael @ Jan 28 2009, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.fsinsider.com/news/Pages/AMessageFromAces.aspx

Have we seen this yet?

"we remain committed to the Flight Simulator franchise for the long term."

They probably are coming back

Good to see, Thanks

[Matthew]

QUOTE (Michael @ Jan 28 2009, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.fsinsider.com/news/Pages/AMessageFromAces.aspx

Have we seen this yet?

"we remain committed to the Flight Simulator franchise for the long term."

They probably are coming back

Really good to see

Proves that they respond, even if it does take worldwide discussions to make it happen
Its nice to see that they are acknowledging the enthusiast market of FS

[Njbb1995]

A Light at the end of the tunnel hopefully?

[greaneyr]

Sorry but I for one don't buy it. It's very 'management' in it's non-commital to anything, yet at the same time implying a lot about 'the end of an era' etc.

I'll break it down into my interpretation of it:

By now, many of you have heard that Microsoft has closed Aces Studio, the publisher of Microsoft Flight Simulator. This was not a reflection of the quality of the products Aces has developed, the sales performance of the games, or the quality of the team at Aces. This difficult decision was made to align Microsoft’s resources with our strategic priorities. Right there is all you need to read, I believe. Microsoft Flight Simulator X will remain available at retail stores and web retailers, the Flight Sim community will continue to learn from and encourage one another, and we remain committed to the Flight Simulator franchise for the long term. The flight sim community will be the only ones making any progress, not us. We'll just keep an eye on things for the sake of nostalgia.

Microsoft Game Studios is investing significant resources in many exciting and new areas of gaming and entertainment, including Windows games. Just not flight simulator. Why would we invest in it if we've just pulled the plug on it? We believe these future investments will push innovation, community, and collaboration to unprecedented levels and will provide more synergy with our ongoing investments in Games for Windows - LIVE as well as other Windows entertainment technologies. We have nothing specific to announce at this time, but stay tuned for more information. anyone want to play bnllsh!t bingo? This is just corporate blah that is actually a synonym for blank space.

We are humbled and proud of the passion and support that the Flight Simulator franchise has developed over its more than twenty-five year history. This includes you, the large community of flight simmers, as well as the vibrant third-party ecosystem that has developed around the game. Thanks for the ride, loyal customers, but it's time for us to move on. We will continue to produce, sell, and support the latest version of Flight Simulator because that generates income for us as we plan for future versions of the franchise. which could mean anything including nothing at all. Thank you for your understanding of our decision and for your continued support! Once again, thanks for the ride, loyal customers.

I realise it's difficult to paint a closure in any kind of positive light, but it would be sad it this alone gave the community hope then we were still waiting for news in 10 years time. Of course, I could be totally wrong too.

[Zöltuger]

QUOTE (Christian @ Jan 27 2009, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

2) Amazon.com sells more copies of FS9 (#20 PC games) than FSX (#25 PC games). Amazon is a pretty good indicator of the general marketplace.

Hmmm, I'm not sure that's the most accurate sales comparison, given there are (effectively) 3 versions of FSX (Deluxe, Standard and Gold) plus an expansion pack (Acceleration). See also: http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2008...-franchise.aspx (though on that link it's somewhat disturbing that Paul says "FS11 planning is in full swing, which means there will be an FS11. Guaranteed, unless we now do something wrong internally." whoops )

Like you say Christian, FSX is not dead simply because there's no FS11 on the horizon. Especially since FS11 wasn't going to be released until 2010 at the earliest anyway! With active communities, MSFS will continue to prosper until someone else - be it Aces "reborn", X-Plane, flightgear - creates a viable and significantly superior alternative.

[Michael]

QUOTE (greaneyr @ Jan 29 2009, 09:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yet at the same time implying a lot about 'the end of an era' etc.

Thats what I was also thinking. I dunno. I want some proper news. Every things a bit sketchy.

I also don't want their normal games department doing it, then it'll turn cr@p and arcade like.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Michael @ Jan 29 2009, 10:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats what I was also thinking. I dunno. I want some proper news. Every things a bit sketchy.

I also don't want their normal games department doing it, then it'll turn cr@p and arcade like.

It certainly didn't scream of "hang in there loyal supporters, we'll be back as soon as we can" really huh?

[Ether]

My thought about being saddened by the end of FS series probably have been echoed by other posters.

One posssibly uncommented aspect for me is this maybe the straw that breaks the camels back with regard to changing OS.
She who must be obeyed has always had an interest in going down the apple line which I had countered with it would be better to have a one OS household.
FS was really the only reason why I stayed with microsoft/XP.

With FS9 working fine on the old pc (was pondering a 920 and overclocking), I must admit to contemplating swapping to apple.
Games... might just get a PS3.


Ether

[Adamski]

QUOTE (toprob @ Jan 23 2009, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But in 10 year's time we'll still be simming away merrily, whether or not the name on the sim is MS. We might even be staunch X-planers, or Flight Gearists, we'll just look back at this time as a bit of a glitch in our hobby.

MSFS is still a very valuable commodity, so while dollars are the driving force in its demise, dollars will bring it back to life eventually, in one form or another.

Sadly, I doubt it.

The problem is that the flight sim community has a particularly myopic view of the games market. Comparatively speaking, flight sim sales are *tiny* - when compared to FPS or RPG's. I've been actively involved in the development of Flanker, Flanker2 and (to a lesser extent) Falcon4/OIR/Allied Force - and have had fair contact with them Rooskies with LOMAC and IL-2. There simply isn't the money - in pure sales terms - to justify the massive investment in time required by an accurate, extensively modelled flight sim.

The only way it can continue is by the goodwill and generosity of Open Source add-ons - or commercial ones which, as I suspect you know 1st hand - won't make you rich enough to buy a *real* plane

MS realised this quite early on with MSFS - and made it fairly easy to extend. Let's face it - basic FS2004 or FSX without any add-ons is a relatively poor offering.

Also, the [IBM] PC (along with Microsoft) is rapidly losing its monopoly. Future flight sims will have to be hardware and O/S independent, as many PC users out there go for Apple or IBM PC with an Open Source OS. Put simply, the IBM PC + MS Windows slice of the software buying public is shrinking.

Enjoy it while you can!

[TheoGregory]

As Ben Supnik (the lead scenery and well 'visual designer' of X-Plane) said: This at the same time, changes everything and changes nothing.

X-Plane will become a major player. As someone who answers the really stupid questions from people on the X-Plane.Org forum, the amount of them has really gone up (meaning X-Plane is really rapidly accelerating!

I see there is some debate to whether MS actually listens to what the customers want. Ben always visits "The Org" which is good though lots of the ideas people suggest are kinda... well not really practical but atleast he takes the time to explain why this wont work in atleast 2 paragraphs to each idea.

MSFS will probably be adopted or resurrected though. Either that or you'll all learn to love X-Plane and that no-one will revive the FS series as it wouldn't be profitable for the company. (The reason I don't say flightgear is not that i'm bias but its really just a wanna be FS2002...)


Just my 2 cents

-TheoGregory

P.S. A thought to leave you with, what will they new sim be called, I mean EA Flight Sim is a really terrible name! And they cant call it Microsoft Flight Sim. And FlightSim is a bad name again...

[Christian]

To stop any further speculation (or at least redirect it), Microsoft is rehiring some of the Aces members and there will be a new flight sim game under the Games for Windows Live banner. So much is pretty certain, but how the new sim is going to look like is very vague at this stage. Could be anything between FS11 and Crimson Skys 2.

Christian

[Ian Warren]

FSE it is then