Real Flying

[towerguy]

I'm sorry guys but I've got to say..

if you find flying boring then you just don't have it! and for gods sake do NOT take it up in real life. boredom leads to inattention, inattention leads to mistakes and in aviation that invariably leads to either incident or accident country. this is the path to the dark side! Literally!

those that have the feeling for flying will know what I mean - those that don't never will.

[Jimmy]

I'd say it was the other way round: The only thing to do on an airliner is take off, press the go button on the coffee maker, sleep, then land. Onboard computers do all the planning and the flying apart from 2 minutes at each end

you trust the computers? I prefer to hand fly the entire climb and alot of the descent, during cruise you can do suc things as calculate your eta (if one of those computers hasn't already done that for you ) fuel use, landing weights, and if flying a difficult approach procedure without a printed chart you can spend quite a while memorising it or writing it down

If flying a realistic scheduled flight, unless its trans atlantic or something there can be quite a lot to do especialy if you come to the nzff during cruise

James

[G-HEVN]

Most airline SOPs require that you not hand fly the plane: The FMS will fly it much better than you. All the calcs have been done before you even leave the ground. The only thing you have to do in the air is tell the FMS what approach you've been assigned.

The pilot is there to feed the dog, and the dog is there to stop the pilot from touching anything. (although I suspect the pilot is really there to take photos and post them on airliners.net... )

[scon]

scotty i have FVA and FVS on fs2004 but its for 2002 all u have to do is make the day really hot and it climbs like a jet

I think i got those of Avsim if I am thinking of the right ones but there propeller and I think the wheels don't appear . I will try it now with the Fs9toFSX converter and see how it goes.

I'm sorry guys but I've got to say..

if you find flying boring then you just don't have it! and for gods sake do NOT take it up in real life. boredom leads to inattention, inattention leads to mistakes and in aviation that invariably leads to either incident or accident country. this is the path to the dark side! Literally!

those that have the feeling for flying will know what I mean - those that don't never will.

I seccond that!!!!!!!!!!

[Jimmy]

Most airline SOPs require that you not hand fly the plane: The FMS will fly it much better than you. All the calcs have been done before you even leave the ground. The only thing you have to do in the air is tell the FMS what approach you've been assigned.

...and set things on the MCP, make changes to the route if nessecery turn fuel pumps on and off, control the pneumatic system and the list gos on..

As far as I know it is recomended the 767-300 be flown up to FL150.

Yes in the RW calculations are done on the ground, probably by someone other than the pilot I think, and us as simmers might not have very long to plan our entire flight, so it makes sense to plan and review the approach at least half way threw the flight. On real world long haul weather conditions can be very differant than when you planned it, possibly even differant fuel comsuption due to changeing winds..

Anyway, I certainly don't get bored during any flight, even if the only thing to do is look out the virtual window, its still wounderful

James

[firefly]

Currently grounded after moving and doing the whole mortgage thing, but hopefully I'll find some spare cash to do the odd flight now and then.

[nzav8tor]

Maybe a little off topic but following the idea of autopilots discussed earlier...

Coming from a VFR background I was of the opinion that autopilot just mean't you couldn't fly so tried to keep it off as long as I could, normally the Captain would suggest it a couple of times before virtually making it an order. (Around FL100 normally.)
One Captain during a flight debriefing opened my eyes to the autopilot as an important tool in that it will take care of the basic duty of flying the aircraft leaving the pilot to take in more of the picture, what your engines and other systems are doing when you would otherwise be focussed on the primary instruments in front with an occasional glance to the centre displays.
Many airlines SOP require autopilot to be engaged as early as 400'AGL after takeoff, its much safer that way.
Flight in RVSM airpace, thats Reduced Vertical Seperation Minimums or 1000' sep between flight levels requires autopilot and Cat II and III approaches need 2 or 3 autopilots! The reality is the autopilot computer is making dozens of small corrections a second while Joe pilot is lucky to make one a second.

(Then you get a boss, like my Fleet Chief who clicks off your autopilot and flight director and gets you doing a raw data approach to keep you sharp. You wouldn't believe how many corrections I can make a second with the boss breathing down my neck!!! ;-)

Hands on stuff is much more fun in a lighty anyway!!!

Dave

[ZK-Brock]

Yeah, when I'm flying the light stuff I don't use an AP (in the sim that is, never had an AP available in real life), but when simming in something heavier than a Baron I like to use the AP as much as possible (though the FS approach hold is pure crap)

[G-HEVN]

Victor November has a two axis autopilot. I actually had some lessons on using it properly (no point in having kit in the plane that you don't know how to use!), and I have to say, it was surprisingly different to the way autopilots are portrayed in FS. Using an auto pilot is certainly a skill that needs to be learned; it's not necessarily obvious.

This particular autopilot has wing leveller, heading and nav hold. The Nav hold can be switched between VOR1/2 and GPS (KLN94). It will follow an entire flight plan in the GPS, but to be honest, I've never bothered to program an entire plan into it (with the engine running at $7.50 per minute!), preferring my handheld.

In HDG hold mode, you can steer the plane by turning the heading bug. In turns, the bank angle is limited to 20 degrees (ie, pretty close to Rate 1). The rudder is not controlled, but it doesn't really need it. In Nav mode, it tracks the source that's feeding the RMI, which can be GPS, Nav1 or Nav2. It won't always capture a weak VOR signal, even if you can ident it. In any case you need to be pretty much 'established' and approximately on track before attempting to capture the signal. You need to switch to HDG mode a couple of miles before passing over a VOR, and then re-capture a couple of miles after. There's none of this huge swing zig zagging you see in FS. It also has Approach mode, which will capture an ILS in both localiser and glide slope.

The really nice thing is there's a heading disconnect button on the yoke horn - if you need to take sudden avoiding action, push the red button, and you can steer. Release the button, and the autopilot kicks back in and returns you to your course. With the autopilot on, the yoke is effectively locked solid.

For vertical navigation it has altitude hold, and rate-based climb and descent. When you push the ALT button, it will capture and hold the current altitude. Unlike FS, if you adjust the altimeter for a changed pressure setting, it won't recapture the altitude (it's actually capturing the pressure level). If you want to climb or descend, you have to deselect ALT hold, and push the up/down button, one push for each 100fpm. So if you want a 500fpm climb, you must press the up button 5 times. It's then up to you as pilot to manage the engine during the climb or descent; leave the plane alone at a high climb rate and the plane will ultimately stall as the angle of attack increases t maintaine the climb rate. Similarly descending has the risk of overspeed. There's no altitude preselect, so you need to stop the climb/descent at the appropriate time.

Okay, so the autopilot is not something you'd use on a 'local' flight. But in Southern England, there's lots of complex airspace, most of which you cannot enter, and constricting busy VFR corridors. As with single-pilot IFR, having the autopilot lets you concentrate more on navigation, lookout and keeping ahead of the aircraft. Then there's the English Channel, where invariably haze causes sea to blend with sky, and you're effectively flying on instruments because you have no horizon. You're already worrying about the engine quitting; it's nice not to need to worry about maintaining straight and level too.

[ZK-TJL]

I'm sorry guys but I've got to say..

if you find flying boring then you just don't have it! and for gods sake do NOT take it up in real life. boredom leads to inattention, inattention leads to mistakes and in aviation that invariably leads to either incident or accident country. this is the path to the dark side! Literally!

those that have the feeling for flying will know what I mean - those that don't never will.

I believe every word of this!!!!!!!

I find long flights in FSX fun!!! I always find something to work on or check. I try to avoid using the GPS as much as possible, I prefer to Navigate 'old school'. There's always something to do, check lists, ATIS, Radios, Charts to review.....always fun........always busy

[lowellyerex]

For those interested in dead reckoning navigation, and long distance flying in light aircraft, may I recommend a book: "Water Under My Wings" by Cliff Tait (out of print - so have a look in second hand bookshops). The man is a legend. He was the chief pilot for N.Z. Aerospace Industries, and flew single engined aircraft solo from NZ all round the world on delivery flights (no GPS back then).

[ZK-Brock]

Yeah I read one of his books (the one where he takes his airtourer around the world). Forgot the name.

[johanfrc]

Would love to. But due to a very bad back I can't. So I'll just stay with FS. But I love to sit on an aeroplane as a passenger.

[ZK-KAG]

For those interested in dead reckoning navigation, and long distance flying in light aircraft, may I recommend a book: "Water Under My Wings" by Cliff Tait (out of print - so have a look in second hand bookshops). The man is a legend. He was the chief pilot for N.Z. Aerospace Industries, and flew single engined aircraft solo from NZ all round the world on delivery flights (no GPS back then).

My Nav lecturer suggested we read it as well, and I reckon its a great book.
Ive been taught so far in the old school, with the following list of appointments he very much believes in the manual side of things.

OC Operations Squadron, RNZAF Ohakea.
Navigation Leader No.122 Sqn, RSAF Singapore.
Commanding Officer, Navigation & Air Electronic Training Squadron, RNZAF Wigram.
Training Plans, Operations Group HQ, RNZAF.
Navigation Leader No.40 Sqn, RNZAF.
Flt Cdr of Navigation & Air Electronic Training Squadron, RNZAF Wigram.
Advanced Navigation and Instructors Course.
Navigation Leader No.41 Sqn, RNZAF (Singapore).

Although we havnt been taught ATPL nav yet, it will be interesting to see his take on new technologies such as FMC's etc. It is really surprising what you can do manually though...without the help of electronic devices.

Just my 2c worth

~Zk-KAG~

[Brennanx]

to do with hand flying : most people take it up to 10000-20000 with the 767 its easier to hand fly so they take it by 20000. This is what my dad told me

[cowpatz]

Currently flying 747's. I purchased FS2004 Century of flight as while ago and gave up due to the miserable flight modeling and limited autopilot functionality. One day on a layover in LAX I got to read a PC pilot mag which ran an article on the PMDG 747 and they raved about it. The fact that it had been tested by RW 747 pilots whetted my appetite and I forked out the coin for it. I have to say that it is as real as it gets. If you are proficient in the Autopilot functions then chances are a flt simmer could, in all probabilty, be able to get this a/c safely to its destination. Might be very untidy but possible. Certainly more so than a non integrated analogue a/c.
I do enjoy the ability to "fly" routes and a/c that I would never in a million years have the opportunity to fly. I have even recently become involved in VATSIM ATC and this has opened up a whole new dimension and learning curve for me.
This is a hobby that you can get as much out of as you are prepared top put in be it flying, designing or controlling and for b*gger all $$$$$.

[gokanru]

There is no substitute for the real thing when it comes to flying,FS can give one a very false impression of what it is like to actually fly an aircraft.

[gokanru]

Tower Guy has summed it up.Boredom.I didn't know the meaning of the word when I was Flying,AG pilots don't get bored but they do get tired,The trick is knowing when to quit and have a break.

[MentorMan]

I'm learning at the moment at Biggin Hill (EGKB) in England. I've only done my first hour but it's a start!

[G-HEVN]

I'm learning at the moment at Biggin Hill (EGKB) in England.  I've only done my first hour but it's a start!

MentorMan, congrats on your first hour. Might I suggest you check out http://www.cixvfrclub.org.uk We have a virtual base of operations at Biggin Hill, and have quite a few RW PPLs in the club as well as several student pilots. Just say Tim sent you