Teach me how to fly Helicopters please!

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Postby ardypilot » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:25 am

Hi guys,

I have always been a fixed wing guy- purley because I have no idea how to fly helicopters. I tried the fs2004 MS lessons, but couldn't get the hang of it, and recently on NZFF and with Charl's new Squirel AI, I really fancey learning how to control the 'ole eggbeaters, and would really appreciate some one on one tution of anyone has time.

I only have a rather bog standard joystick, with a throttle and POV hat switch, no twisty buisness or rudder pedals. Does this matter?

If your interested in helping me out, please reply here!

Cheers,
Andrew :plane:
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Postby ZK-KAG » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:19 am

Yeah mate id be happy to give you a hand, I live locally too and only charge a small amount :P haha... Yeah give me a PM or MSN and ill give ya hand :)
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Postby ZK-Brock » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:23 am

I only have a rather bog standard joystick, with a throttle and POV hat switch, no twisty buisness or rudder pedals. Does this matter?


The non-twistyness may matter.How doyou control your rudder when you're fixed wing?
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Postby Bandit » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:32 am

Hi Trolly,

They are certainly a different beast to master. Whilst I make no claims to be an expert, I'm sure we'll be able to get you up and about. (and maybe back down again). I still find the transistion from forward flight to the hover for landing a bit touchy at times.

Though you can do it with your "bog standard joystick, with a throttle and POV hat switch, no twisty buisness or rudder pedals". I found it a bit harder than when I changed to my x45. A twisty business joystick can be got for around $40.00 I think and will help. Having said that if you know no different it probably doesn't matter.

Recommend first thing you do is head over to Hovercontrol.com and have a look around there. Excellent tutorials for a start. Also suggest you download the MD500e Custom. This is a upgrade of the Nemeths original MD500e.

If you want to see what it looks like, it's the one Natas (pre his s-76 machine), and Charl use. It is my favourite and you will see it in my clip in the video forum.

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Postby Charl » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:32 am

You're in good hands here.
My ha'penny worth: definitely get a twist action joystick
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Postby ZK-MAT » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:51 am

I'll third the suggestion to get a twist rudder joystick or pedals!

How do you counteract crosswind takeoffs etc at the moment? I find the rudder's essential to steer and generally control the plane, using the keys would be all or nothing control I'd imagine (probably not too bad for FS but something like IL2 is unplayable on the on-line setting without a variable control rudder)
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Postby ardypilot » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:10 pm

Looks like I am going to have to asks Santa for a new joystick then!

At the moment I use '0' and 'Enter' on the numpad for my left and right rudder.

I already have the MD500e downloaded, from the very first NZFFac fly in, but I don't know how to control it.

I'll go on MSN now and see if anyone is around to teach me. Thanks for the help and advice!
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Postby Christian » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:25 pm

Rather than getting a twist joystick (clumsy) or pedals ($$$), get a racing wheel. The pedals aren't the same, but work like a treat (that's what I do). You should be able to pickup a racing wheel quite cheaply.

The reason that your joystick won't do is because for choppers you really need to control yaw independently, especially when you're hovering (which you need to do for takeoff and landing). Hovering is REALLY difficult - I haven't managed to master it. Unlike airplanes, choppers are unstable. Once you're in the air and flying they are as simple to fly as an aircraft, but the hovering business is enough to make a grown man cry...

There used to be an exellent ground school on the net, but I think the site is defunct now. The basic message was practice, practice, practice the hovering until you drop dead. Here's what you do: slowly increase the throttle (called collective in choppers). At some point you feel how the chopper starts to lift off and becomes responsive. Slowly increase throttle. At some point the chopper will turn left or right. Apply rudder to keep chopper straight. When you have a twist action joystick you tend to apply sidewards or forward/backward pressure, which you then need to compensate, so twist action joysticks are more difficult. Even with rudders your chopper will tilt in one direction, which you need to compensate. As you increase the throttle the chopper will become more and more unstable. The key is to keep balancing the beast so it's straight and level. Easier said then done, I usually loose control at some point and getting back into control is even more difficult - so get used to crashing a lot. I find the R22 is a lot easier, the Bell just has too much grunt and it seems the sheer amount of power (and maybe weight) makes it less stable. Or maybe it's bad aerodynamics in MSFS, not sure if choppers are really this impossible to fly in real life. (Usually, I manage a quick hover in the R22, then loose control a bit, but still somehow get airborne.) Ok, once you're in a stable hover, you should gain some altitude. Then apply some slight forward pressure so you start picking up some forward speed. Once you have some speed flying becomes easy - basically the same as aircraft. To land you do the reverse. Pull back until your speed is zero (ie hover) and then slowly reduce throttle so the chopper sinks. And once again - balance, balance, balance. I have yet to manage a clean landing...

To really train the hover, you can do this excercise: go into hover, then slowly fly to predetermined points on the runway/airport while staying close to the ground (ie taxiing). Once you reach the point, go back into hover, then on to next point, etc... master that and you've mastered flying choppers.

Cheers,
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Postby squirrel350 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:56 pm

Hello Christian what a great read I just want to ask you one thing you said get a racing wheel with pedals if I did that could I just use the pedals and continue using my joystick because I have never really thought of that and if it works the way I think it does it is a brilliant idea please let me know ta.
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Postby ZK-MAT » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:54 pm

I picked up an old Geniuswheel and pedals off TradeMe for $5 a while back. It's the older gameport connector but DickSmiths sell a Gameport to USB adapter. Look for one of those - both peadls are large and the same size, which is ideal.

I used to have it connected up and it worked well but it meant I had to sit with both feet on the floor :P I decided that the twist on the joystick did the job well enough, and I have no problems controlling helos in FS or Battlefield. My suggestion is to take things real slow. It's like backing a trailer, small movements may take a few seconds to respond but you'll have moe control. Large movements will invaribly lead to ooopsies.
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Postby squirrel350 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:27 pm

hmmm Im definately going to get a steering wheel and pedals because I find it strange flying with the rudder control on the stick and having the pedals will just add to the realism now all I need to do is find a way to build my own collective hehe.
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Postby ardypilot » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:32 pm

Thanks guys.

I have spent a few hours online with Natas who explained the basics to me. I have now just about mastered straight and level flight, and hovering, although I have been using 1/2 speed to practice. I have also changed lots of realisum settings around with his help which was made it easier for me to control the heli- and have assigned buttons on the top of my joystick for left and right rudder which is a great help.

I'm having a lot of trouble making a landing as you mentioned Christian, but I have just managed to fly my MD500 over the sea from Great Barrier to the Corramandel which I am well pleased with :D

Unfortuantly I don't have a game wheel. I used to have a really neat Logitech one with pedals but I sold it a few months ago on trademe. I think I might just have to add one to my Xmas wishlist...

Back to practising them. See ya!
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Postby Christian » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:35 pm

USB steering wheels work just fine. You simply assign 'keys' in the FS2004 setup menu for both the joystick and the wheel (ie yaw axis to pedals). As I mentioned, car pedals and aircraft pedals aren't the same (aircraft pedals slide rather than tilt), but if you can live with the slight difference, wheel pedals are a lot cheaper.

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Postby SUBS17 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:02 pm

For helicopters its good to have a HOTAS with rudder pedals, back in 1996 I bought a thrustmaster F-16 Hotas and used it with my rudder pedals in helicopter sims. You have to setup the throttle in reverse so it behaves like a helicopters setup. The best heli-sim I've used was actually Longbow 2 and I found that practicing on the ground and getting the coordination between the cyclic, collective and the pedals helped me get the helicopter to fly. Its a matter of keeping the aircraft pointing in one direction while you rise off the deck then dipping the nose and picking up a bit of speed. To slow down raise the nose and bleed the speed off, when you can do that without crashing then look at trying to land in a particular spot thats the hard part.
Speaking of rudder pedals Saitek have recently released a set of pedals which would probably work quite well with FSX and FS2004.
http://www.vrconcepts.co.nz/index.php?i ... ncrement=8
$259 nz,( quite cheap as my first set I bought in 1992 cost $400nz)
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Postby squirrel350 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:12 pm

OOOOO I have seen another new release from Saitek it was the X52 + Pedals for $498 I cant remember where from but it looked really good.

I just had the 16:12 flight from NZAA - NZHN fly over lol random I know but I thought it was amusing time delay of about 4mins.
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Postby towerguy » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:33 pm

you have to remember that helos don't fly- the earth repels them :lol:

you don't steer or control them you just think about where you want to go and that is just about overcontrolling! - thats from a real helo driver here at work - very small inputs only. also make sure you set your null zones to zero.
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Postby squirrel350 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:50 pm

hahaha I find it hilarious when people call them helicopter drivers we had one guy come up to us at the fieldays and ask if we were the helicopter drivers one of our pilots responses was "sorry we only fly the helicopter none of us are qualified to drive them that requires a whole different license" we all cracked up laughing and a few minutes later the same guy who had asked the question started laughing you can tell we have a sad sense of humour lol those four days were the hardest days to get thru because within arriving at the fieldays you would be in fits of laughter.
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Postby Zöltuger » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:42 pm

the helicopters have been made easier to control in FSX:
http://blogs.technet.com/p-12c_pilot/ar ... n-fsx.aspx
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Postby creator2003 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:13 pm

yeah sorry about having to leave at the end ,but ill be around most days to take you through some more landings and maybe a autorotation :lol: now that will be fun ,practise is the key . and understanding what you are trying to do ,the settings i told you are the most important thing with helos and fs9/fsx/simming ,
you will see the differences with landing fix wing as well after a bit
see you for the next lesson
mike :thumbup:
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Postby Alex » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:16 pm

squirrel350 wrote: OOOOO I have seen another new release from Saitek it was the X52 + Pedals for $498 I cant remember where from but it looked really good.

Thats a good deal, they are sturdy and have heaps of buttons. :P
I probably got that for about $650. :ph43r:

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