Mid air drama on Air NZ Flight

[zk2704]

Something unusual, but interesting

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article....jectid=11288373

[omitchell]

Bringing the biff to inflight entertainment...

[Splitpin]

Not even slightly funny im sorry , 2 minutes or not, in light of all thats been going on at the moment.
That guy should be sacked .
I bet if someone had stood up and said the "B" word , they would be in a world of trouble.

Im only going on the news reports , but why is the copilot being stood down ?

[emfrat]

Surprised both were not weeded out in the employment selection process. There is (or there used to be) a requirement for mature, even-tempered cockpit relations management, and any indications to the contrary meant you didn't get the job. Remember G-ARPI ? See p31:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/formal...973__g_arpi.cfm

And why, and by whom, was the co-pilot required to take a drug/alcohol test?

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (emfrat @ Jul 7 2014,6:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Surprised both were not weeded out in the employment selection process. There is (or there used to be) a requirement for mature, even-tempered cockpit relations management, and any indications to the contrary meant you didn't get the job. Remember G-ARPI ? See p31:
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/formal...973__g_arpi.cfm

And why, and by whom, was the co-pilot required to take a drug/alcohol test?

Mike , part of my brief is to randomly select staff for the test ( they agree to it when they sign on), so i assume ANZ have a similar policy ..... but the rest of it is a bit odd.

[emfrat]

Thanks Marty - it is a standard thing in many industries these days, and so it should be. But when cockpit crews arrive for and start work a good 90 mins before pushback, how does a routine check delay the flight?

[omitchell]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Jul 7 2014,6:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet if someone had stood up and said the "B" word , they would be in a world of trouble.

You get arrested and charged for doing that on a US Airline

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (emfrat @ Jul 7 2014,7:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Marty - it is a standard thing in many industries these days, and so it should be. But when cockpit crews arrive for and start work a good 90 mins before pushback, how does a routine check delay the flight?

Not sure Mike , you would assume in this situation it would have been planned to fit in with the schedule and not interfere with the departure. I can only speculate that the company may have had some other reason to check this person .... i dont think we will ever know all the facts.

I was thinking about this sort of thing today , we place so much faith in people whom we just assume will look after us .... a taxi driver , a bus driver , and a pilot .
A few weeks ago i was up in a thing called a "man cage" ... a platform with sides ..... we were lifted up 16 floors buy a 220 ton crane ,i trusted the operator not to drop me , and the guy talking to the driver to put us down where we needed to be , because the driver (operator) couldn't see us past level 13 .
Im wandering off track ..... so to sum up , i guess im saying for someone in such a position(the pilot) to resort to such a childish act , even for 2 minutes is beyond me , and he should be gone for good.
People trust him to be professional , people pay him to be the same .... yes , we all have bad days , but work it out when you get home , not when you have 300 or so people sitting behind you .

Just my thoughts.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Jul 7 2014,10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was thinking about this sort of thing today , we place so much faith in people whom we just assume will look after us .... a taxi driver , a bus driver , and a pilot .
A few weeks ago i was up in a thing called a "man cage" ... a platform with sides ..... we were lifted up 16 floors buy a 220 ton crane ,i trusted the operator not to drop me , and the guy talking to the driver to put us down where we needed to be , because the driver (operator) couldn't see us past level 13 .

Don't think your wander to far off .... placing your life .... to person in front of you, ........... [color=#000000]I start thinking of the ones who "Trucked up" and do the runner and when caught (except MH370) or cases get so old they Rolf at ya , ... Who the bloody hell are they hiring these days, a Boeing 777 , two seat over sized bus, but NZ aircrew? surely NOT orrr ! ?

I do wonder how many incidents like did happen pre the locking of the (drivers) pilot doors and all due to a bunch "Jibber Jibbers" Jumping and stealing aircraft created , from the infamous Dawson Field all the way to the PAN AM Lockerbie as an example in not getting to the door

Faith and respect , also gos the other way round as well
[/color]

[omitchell]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Jul 8 2014,9:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PAN AM Lockerbie as an example in not getting to the door

Was a bomb that boarded the flight without the bags owner.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (omitchell @ Jul 8 2014,11:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was a bomb that boarded the flight without the bags owner.

Yeah we all no that .. just an example of dumbness and it continues ... Jibber Jibbers from the arm waving country's that we are not allow to speak about .. so much for ground and airport security of the day ,

[zk2704]

Damn spot on about the dumbness of the 777 pilots!

Boeing 777s have a damn good safety record, but its sad the safety record has it's days numbered because of such dumb incidents like Asiana 214, MH370, even this incident. This is truly Aviation gone horribly wrong at this stage.

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (zk2704 @ Jul 8 2014,7:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Damn spot on about the dumbness of the 777 pilots!

Boeing 777s have a damn good safety record, but its sad the safety record has it's days numbered because of such dumb incidents like Asiana 214, MH370, even this incident. This is truly Aviation gone horribly wrong at this stage.

Careful with the " dumbness of the 777 pilots! " comments kiddo , there are people on this forum who fly them for real , and who were flying 20 years before you hatched . Odd as this situation appears , the non incidents far out weigh the "incidents" . And how can you quantify your "safety record has it's days numbered " statement ...what does that mean ? How can an aircrafts safety record be damaged by what appears to pilot error or intervention (ANZ excluded)

[emfrat]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Jul 7 2014,7:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure Mike , you would assume in this situation it would have been planned to fit in with the schedule and not interfere with the departure. I can only speculate that the company may have had some other reason to check this person .... i dont think we will ever know all the facts.

Yes, I agree - and at the moment there is too much left open to conjecture, which is bad for the airline.
From a purely management perspective, you can't create a special roster just to accommodate two pilots who can't, or won't, work as a team. So, you have to dismiss both. I would.

ATB
MikeW

[zk2704]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Jul 8 2014,9:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Careful with the " dumbness of the 777 pilots! " comments kiddo , there are people on this forum who fly them for real , and who were flying 20 years before you hatched . Odd as this situation appears , the non incidents far out weigh the "incidents" . And how can you quantify your "safety record has it's days numbered " statement ...what does that mean ? How can an aircrafts safety record be damaged by what appears to pilot error or intervention (ANZ excluded)

Sorry Marty, I was not a happy chap when I saw Ian's post about it, and I didn't mean to say "all 777 pilots" but just the pilots on that flight and the flights mentioned in that specific post.

The "safety record" statement of mine is just a estimation that if more incidents involving 777 aircraft happens, it can possibly damage it's safety record which so far is being excellent.

[omitchell]

QUOTE (zk2704 @ Jul 9 2014,5:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Marty, I was not a happy chap when I saw Ian's post about it, and I didn't mean to say "all 777 pilots" but just the pilots on that flight and the flights mentioned in that specific post.

The "safety record" statement of mine is just a estimation that if more incidents involving 777 aircraft happens, it can possibly damage it's safety record which so far is being excellent.

Yeah but since most issues with this plane seem to be pilot error, it's safety record isn't really in much danger. Course that all changes when something on the plane goes belly up and it does a belly flop.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (zk2704 @ Jul 9 2014,6:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was not a happy chap when I saw Ian's post about it,

I would start to learn and the see the effect and how you approach and attitude, first day out we shrugged our shoulders, second day you got sanctioned, third day your got warned , the forth day .. another tap on the shoulder.

You may want to take in account, the collective brain , flyers that is both PPL/CPL/Military/Naval, ATC combat real to which I'd .. I do admire , I'm not admin , frankly pull your head in and listen to the people that can teach, now were was I fourteen years back ... Hmmm !

[Dash8captain]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Jul 9 2014,6:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would start to learn and the see the effect and how you approach and attitude, first day out we shrugged our shoulders, second day you got sanctioned, third day your got warned , the forth day .. another tap on the shoulder.

You may want to take in account, the collective brain , flyers that is both PPL/CPL/Military/Naval, ATC combat real to which I'd .. I do admire , I'm not admin , frankly pull your head in and listen to the people that can teach, now were was I fourteen years back ... Hmmm !

Amen +1!

[scon]

Dumb is a big, big word to throw around in regard to OZ214, significant amount of other factors at play there. MH370.. who knows? It would be news to the rest of the world if you knew of some 'dumb' action taken by the pilots that can be confirmed?

As for this incident.... well.... probably not CRM's finest hour.