Godzone and Prepar3D, and other bits and pieces

[toprob]

You may have noticed that I've cut down on my Godzone posts here on NZFF, shifting mainly to my own Development Blog and Facebook for news. The Development Blog is where you are most likely to find info on upcoming projects, at the moment it covers Real NZ NZWN. The Godzone Support Forum here on NZFF will still be the main place to come for support, though.

First up, a wee advert -- I've discounted Real NZ Nelson and the FTX-compatible Special until the end of November, to co-incide with the Nelson Airport's 75th Anniversary. See theGodzone Store for details.

I've had a few queries about my support of Prepar3D, so I'll post the same info here so that I can refer to this post in future.

At the moment I haven't a clue what will happen once Prepar3D 2.0 is released next week, but I am looking forward to it. I do have a rough idea of what I may do with Real NZ scenery and Prepar3D, but this depends on a few unknowns. I haven't ever released a specific P3D 1.4 version of any scenery, simply because I didn't expect P3D to 'take off' until version 2.0. And it was always easy enough to install a lot of third party addons into P3D, and my stuff was as easy as any. A few people asked if it was possible, but not as many as you'd expect, which did support my impression that P3D 1.4 was a bit of a novelty.

I am very, very excited about the direction that Prepar3D 2.0 is taking us, and I will actively support it if possible. I don't know what this will mean for existing scenery, it may be that they will be fully compatible, requiring a similar install hack to 1.4:

-create a dummy fsx.exe in the Prepar3D folder;
-run the FSX Registry Fix tool so it points to this folder;
-run the Real NZ installer;
-...remembering to turn off the auto-add-to-library feature.
-run the FSX Registry fix to point the registry back to FSX, once finished;
-manually activate the new scenery within P3D.

For upcoming projects, I will look at P3D features, starting with NZWN, which I would love to see with improved lighting/shadows, and maybe some wild waves coming off the Strait...

There are some things to be sorted out here, first, mainly the reliance on 3DS Max for P3D development. I've always relied on GMAX since FS2002, but FSX was the last GMAX-supported sim. At the moment I'd be struggling to find the US$10/month P3D subscription, let alone the AUD$325/month for Max:) It may be that the amazing FSDeveloper site can come up with a way to produce P3D-compliant models from GMAX, but I would need to be a bit more financially stable to consider buying Max.

Speaking of NZWN, as I said the Blog is the place to watch for development updates, but here's just a couple of shots for those who only come here for their simming info... These are very early shots of the terminal, with self-shading turned on, getting ready for P3D.

[NZ255]

[Ian Warren]

Yip .. walked down those stairs .. walked back up em .. walked out to the plane and arrived back , it very much looks like that !

[toprob]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Nov 23 2013,2:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it very much looks like that !

Except I bet it wasn't sunny!

[Ian Warren]

Rob , Twas a Brilliant Morning , Twice i was told to go this way - then that way then they even changed the gate on us ....... to this day still have not figured that out ... A Wellington bad hair day or maybe they lost it in the wind .. twice on returns tho was grey .. other wet and windy .

[Naki]

Great stuff .... is the "rock" included?

[cooldad]

Great work Rob, as always. You will have to change the slogan on the terminal from 'Wild at Heart' to 'Middle of Middle Earth' now.
I have a photo if you need it which I took last weekend when I did my trial flight.

Paul

[toprob]

QUOTE (cooldad @ Nov 24 2013,2:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great work Rob, as always. You will have to change the slogan on the terminal from 'Wild at Heart' to 'Middle of Middle Earth' now.
I have a photo if you need it which I took last weekend when I did my trial flight.

Paul

Cheers, Paul, I did take some photos of the new frontage, but I probably won't use them -- I have permission from the airport to use 'Wild at Heart' but I don't have permission to use Middle Earth. It's probably the most heavily protected IP in New Zealand.

[toprob]

Just an update on Prepar3D v2. The first job I wanted to look at was updating the Real NZ installers so that they supported P3D2. I started with the Vector Land Class Libraries, as they are a common requirement for some of my scenery. I also took the opportunity to fix a couple of FSX DX10 issues with the libraries.
Step two was meant to be a dual installer for Real NZ Nelson (along with a couple of DX10 tweaks for FSX), but first I needed to make sure that this is actually compatible with P3D2. Turns out there are a couple of issues, although a lot less than I imagined.

Actually, it does seem to be more compatible with P3D2 than DX10 in FSX. For example, the ground poly night textures actually show up. However there is a problem with some ground polys not showing shadows of aircraft or scenery. This can be easily tweaked. A trickier problem is the legacy code which controls the windsock animation -- the socks just don't show up at all. Pending a rethink, I might have to revert to the ugly blobby default windsocks for now.

Before I installed P3D2, I did think that maybe all airport models might need to be re-exported to have proper shadows, but it turns out that the old-style FS2004 shadows work best out of the box. More complex models, with self-shading and LODs, do seem to need to be re-exported to get the shadows working properly. I'm beginning to get an idea of how it all works...





My initial impression of P3D2 is very positive. I think that a lot of people immediately notice the improved atmosphere, which is hugely helped by the 'fog' effect in the overview above. However a screenshot doesn't do the visuals justice, actually moving through the air is where you notice the improved visuals. The airport shot is very similar to FSX, but it does have a couple of nice aspects -- the treeline on top of the hill, and the subtle more realistic tones.

I did experiment with different settings, and managed to OOM a couple of times, but pulling back on the settings fixes this. I do have one really weird issue, which has been reported by a few users, and shows up in DAndre's performance test video here.

Basically the autogen vegetation textures get scrambled, replaced with random textures. This kind of ruins the experience, so I hope the LM can sort this out quickly. Well, I do assume that this is an issue with P3D2, of course it could be a problem with my GPU...

Here's a screenshot of the problem, it can be quite arty at times...


The shadows are a very promising feature, but there are a few gotchas. It will probably be a lot more effective on a much more powerful system than mine, but a think that there are a couple of bugs which people have mentioned on the P2D2 forum.

Here's a quick video showing the building shadows using the cool 'time preview' feature, which lets you move a slider to change the time of day.



Just about anything can have shadows, even objects flagged 'noshadow' such as trees, grass etc. This particular feature isn't really all that useful, but it is cool:) Autogen trees can display proper shadows, but of course a real performance hit. You can see the autogen building shadows on the hill in the video, but I have turned off autogen trees until I can fix the weirdness -- you can control autogen trees and building density separately now.

I hope to release a dual installer for Nelson (and the required VLC libraries) very soon. It does look like in the long-term there will be a new P3D-specific solution to some of the issues -- for example, from a quick look at the SDK there might be a better way to layer ground polys, rather than the old FS2002-style.

Working on a new project like NZWN is a lot easier than retro-fitting a previously released scenery, so future projects should be able to take advantage of all new features. Wellington is looking particularly good in development on P3D2!

[MichaelBasler]

Hi Robin,

great! I intend to do me a favour and buy/ley me buy P3D2 as a Christmas gift. NZ has been one of my favorite flying areas for years now. Just take all the time you need, but if you can get Nelson & Co. P3D2 compatible that would be great. And, of course, I'd buy a P3D2 compatible Wellington on day 1.

Kind regards, Michael

[toprob]

Another quick vid this time giving a glimpse at Real NZ NZWN (although not the WN bits, just the rest), in development.
This afternoon, after a lot of trial and error, all at once P3D2 started working well:)
No scenery shadows here, but the autogen is maxed out.
(Watch in HD, 720 or 1080.)
This video is via FRAPS, as P3D2 doesn't work with ShadowPlay, for some reason.
I made the video first with clear weather, and framerates were 60+, but I prefer it overcast, so I redid it.

[toprob]

I mentioned yesterday that Prepar3D suddenly started working great. When I say 'great', I mean in a way which really shows FSX up as a very poor performer on my system. It really looks like LM have taken every issue with FSX that makes it ponderous, and fixed it.

I'm not entirely sure what was the magic tweak, but I did follow the 'tuning' guide in the Learning Center. This lists a set of config entries which are missing from a default install. I think that before these tweaks, my GPU was getting swamped, but now it isn't. One thing I noticed when monitoring performance, though, is that Windows 8 Live Tiles tend to hog memory. I've turned them all off, and actually uninstalled the Facebook app, which was the biggest offender.

It is now just a matter of turning features on and off to see what I can and can't live with, as P3D features do affect framerates hugely, of course. For instance, tessellation has a big effect on my system, but I'm leaving that on for now. Terrain shadows do as well, but I like them enough to live with. Water I just can't get the hang of, I might just wait and see what the community comes up with.

At the moment I've locked framerates at 30, and it never varies, no matter what I try. No stutters, no blurring, no tearing, no slow-loading textures, no funny autogen textures any more. So if you are having trouble setting up P3D, then I'd suggest a RTFM, especially the tuning guide.

[Scupper]

Hi Rob,

Keep up the good work!

I share your enthusiasm for P3D2 and can't bring myself to go back to FSX despite my PDMG 737 being stuck there at the moment. Been flying round Iceland quite a bit and tweaking things, - to me it just seems a lot more like flying than FSX does, though it could just be that the default Bonanza is good. Takes off and lands like a real plane.

Anyway, - I installed FTX Global so now I can fly around Auckland again but although it looks like a proper built-up area it doesn't look much like Auckland so I'm dying to get Supercity loaded (I have it on FSX but presumably will need a P3D2 installer or some such), which is the point of this post... Please, please, when can I have it?

[toprob]

QUOTE (Scupper @ Dec 9 2013,11:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Rob,

Keep up the good work!

I share your enthusiasm for P3D2 and can't bring myself to go back to FSX despite my PDMG 737 being stuck there at the moment. Been flying round Iceland quite a bit and tweaking things, - to me it just seems a lot more like flying than FSX does, though it could just be that the default Bonanza is good. Takes off and lands like a real plane.

Anyway, - I installed FTX Global so now I can fly around Auckland again but although it looks like a proper built-up area it doesn't look much like Auckland so I'm dying to get Supercity loaded (I have it on FSX but presumably will need a P3D2 installer or some such), which is the point of this post... Please, please, when can I have it?

Supercity is quite a simple install, so you can just copy the RealNZSupercity folder from FSX over to P3D and activate it in the Library. That's what I did:)

[toprob]

...and one more. I love the way P3D2 makes even this old low-resolution scenery look real:)

[Ian Warren]

Hmm , be dang interesting to see the result with Christchuch X , one thing i did notice when FSX first come out pre the SP1/SP2 packs how incredible the old FS9 looked on the base going that eight years back , looks like P3D may have kept part off that coding .

[Scupper]

Wow, - that's great, - never thought it would be so simple! Got my beautiful city back... and I appreciate your honesty in not charging existing owners $5 for a new installer.



Can I do this with all my Godzone scenery, - or would it be possible for you to let us know which ones work and which (if any) don't?

While I love it, to my way of thinking, the City looks a little bit flat in places, - see Mt Vic and North Head at top right of my pic. It's easy to see what they really look like with a Google search but do you know of a mesh that has more accurate heights? I'm using the 2m mesh option in P3D2,

Many thanks.

[toprob]

QUOTE (Scupper @ Dec 9 2013,4:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, - that's great, - never thought it would be so simple! Got my beautiful city back... and I appreciate your honesty in not charging existing owners $5 for a new installer.

Can I do this with all my Godzone scenery, - or would it be possible for you to let us know which ones work and which (if any) don't?

While I love it, to my way of thinking, the City looks a little bit flat in places, - see Mt Vic and North Head at top right of my pic. It's easy to see what they really look like with a Google search but do you know of a mesh that has more accurate heights? I'm using the 2m mesh option in P3D2,

Many thanks.

That does look a little flat, but it just might be the wide-angle of the shot. But it would be worthwhile just checking that you really do have NZNI elevation activated. I use Vector Land Class, but the result should be similar to this:


I didn't realise you had NZNI installed, that actually complicates things a bit:)

Supercity, as I said, is one of the simplest because it doesn't include airports. If you have patched Supercity for use with NZNI in FSX, then copying the folder should really be enough. However most Real NZ scenery includes airports, and a lot of the Godzone freeware scenery do too. These should work the same way, but there may be extra bits -- normally a small file in Scenery\World\Scenery -- which would have to be copied over to P3D\Scenery\World\Scenery.

And of course if you have patched any Real NZ or Godzone scenery for NZNI, there will be some changes to the NZNI install which will need to be replicated as well.

The recommended way to install a FSX scenery into P3D is to use the original installer, after temporarily changing the FSX Registry to point to P3D.

I'd do it this way:

Copy/paste FSX.exe from the FSX folder into the P3D folder. (This won't be used except to allow the registry fix (next step) to find the proper location.
Run the Flight1 Registry Fix, choose FSX, navigate to the copy of FSX you placing in the P3D folder;
Now I'd actually check the Registry to see if it now points to the P3D folder;
(At this stage it didn't work for me, I've used the Registry Fix before, but this time it didn't change the Registry, so I did it manually. Not recommended unless you are confident with this sort of thing.)
Now you can run any Real NZ or Godzone installer, but unselecting any option to add to the Scenery Library. Other options, such as Orbx compatibility, should be considered one by one, but the safest choice is to deactivate all of them.
Once you've run all the installers you can find, run the Registry Fix again and change it back to pointing at the correct FSX folder.
You can delete the copy of FSX.exe in the P3D folder at this stage, but it can remain there in case you want to do this exercise again to install other FSX scenery.

EDIT: oops, I thought you said that you had NZNI installed, but you didn't. In that case, the options for a better mesh are VLC or NZNI.

[Scupper]

QUOTE

oops, I thought you said that you had NZNI installed, but you didn't. In that case, the options for a better mesh are VLC or NZNI.[/quote]

I did say that but about three minutes later I remembered I had uninstalled it because it didn't work properly, so I edited it out of my post.

QUOTE

The recommended way to install a FSX scenery into P3D is to use the original installer, after temporarily changing the FSX Registry to point to P3D.[/quote]

Guess I'll have to try that, though it looks like it could lead to problems. Maybe making system restore points before attempting it would be wise, then presumably registry changes could be rolled back. I'm trying not to stuff up the installation I have now.

I'm waiting for OrbX to release their P3D2 installer for NZNI so I guess I'll have to put up with wrong heights till then. Shouldn't be long by the looks of it. Your VLC mesh looks right, in fact your pic looks a million times better than my hurried one . I'll have to try and come up with something as good.

Scupper

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[Scupper]

I put a couple of new shots of Auckland in the Screenshots section, entitled 'Jafa'. Still not quite as spiffy as Rob's though, - have to tweak REX a bit more...