New PC?

The place to ask for help or solve each others technical issues and discuss hardware

Postby Naki » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:28 pm

Can I get some ideas from the more PC savy members on the forum.

I have now decided I will get a custon built one from some PC guys I know and they can also get the parts I need. Before that I need some ideas on what motherboard, GPU etc I need. My budget is about $1000 and I aiming for an I5 2500k ...other that that I am completey open to ideas?
Last edited by Naki on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby IslandBoy77 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:05 pm

I suppose it depends on what results you want. $1k is very light for FSX, although as I say, it depends on what you're expecting in terms of sliders vs frame rate. It appears that the general things to remember are this:
1) FSX is Intel / nVidia "biased", so you will get slightly better results with that mix vs AMD (I personally prefer AMD, but FSX demands otherwise if you want "best solution")
2) FSX is still very GHz heavy. Doug (or someone) posted on another thread that they reckon they can get FSX to make use of more than 2 cores of CPU. I've not achieved this myself, and usually the recommendation is to get a very fast dual core as opposed to a mediocre quad or more.
3) More than 4GB appears to be a bit of a waste on FSX unless you are planning on running other software at the same time
4) Doug says that the new raptor drives (as opposed to the older ones from a year or 2 back) are faster than SSDs. I've not been able to test this, and general "wisdom" is to have FSX on an SSD. Problem is even cheap SSDs of sufficient size are expensive. Also, one needs to get an SSD with fast throughput AND sustained transfer AND good burst rates. Bit of a tall order on your budget. Otherwise, an SATA3 64MB cache 1TB drive (my preference is Western Digital) is the only way to go.

There are some well-priced nVidia GTX 460's on TradeMe most days - that would be a good pick to help keep costs down for the video card side of things.

A note on hard drives: don't do the "cheap" thing of partitioning a 1TB into multiple "pieces". Most people think they're being clever doing this, not having to buy more hard drives. But partitioning a drive slows everything down a bit, and if you lose a partition it's more likely you'll lose other partitions at the same time or at least experience corruption. There is a bit of sharply divided opinion on this, but after having spent almost 20 years building / fixing computers (both Windows & Apple-based), I say that partitioning is from Satan's bottom. dry.gif Especially when it comes to performance / gaming.

Other things will sort of tend to take care of themselves, after a fashion, being governed by your budget. My personal preference for motherboard is Gigabyte, but many people like Asus. I won't use Asus as they are a pack of lying thieves who will do whatever they can to dodge warranty, but then plenty of people claim to have had no problems in that regard. They cost me $2k a few year's ago due to a crappy implementation of Vista on a high-spec'd laptop one of my clients was having major issues with, but they managed to hide behind all sorts of caveats & obscure legal technicalities that let them off the hook (even though they admitted that they were at fault, and they most certainly were). So I've been on a mission since to make them pay: $60k and counting: take THAT Asus. angry.gif

Power supply needs to be over 550W with Active PFC & 2 x 12v rails. As I mentioned in my other post, AcBel is a good lower mid-range brand. Kingston is a good mid-range for RAM. Liteon is a good mid-range for DVD-R. Case is totally personal preference: just remember you get what you pay for. Cooler Master make some well-priced fairly well built cases that cool pretty well, but there's too many variables (like whether you plan to overclock, how much room is in your budget, what cooling your video card has, how warm an environment the case will sit in) to make any hard & fast recommendations. Even a "cheap & nasty" case will do the job: one can always add in a few case fans if needed.
Last edited by IslandBoy77 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
IslandBoy77
Senior Member
 
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:23 pm
Posts: 1020
Location: Napier, New Zealand

Postby deeknow » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:05 pm

Hey Paul. Always a fun exercise, and you're off to a great start w some sound advice from IB already. I would echo his sentiment though that you're making a pretty hard go of it getting a serious machine when you're only spending $1,000.

Aiming for the 2500K is a good start even though it's gonna chew up 1/3 of your budget, it's a great processor and you will have a chance to overclock it later depending on the board you choose to go with it. I'd say keep things simple now though, RAM is cheap you only need 4GB if its a dedicated Sim rig. GPU wise you are gonna suffer a little but if you spend $150 or so on a GPU you'll get something pretty good. I wouldn't worry about custom cooling other than the OEM fan that ships with the CPU at this stage so that'll save some dosh. You dont mention if you need to buy an OS license for Windows but if you aren't already running Win7/64bit I'd look at buying a white-label copy online, can be had for about $150. A single conventional 3.5" HDD will be fine and can be had for not much money. Can add another or even an SSD later down the track when you have more dosh

Do take the time to read the forums at avsim.com and flightsim.com etc as this sort of conversation goes on there all week every week with some very sound advice. I reccommend you have a crack at using something like PriceSpy to assemble your components and review prices. I've knocked up a quick rig that might do the trick and the total comes to $1,050nz which is pretty close, see:
http://pricespy.co.nz/list.php?l=77227

Here's the breakdown in case PriceSpy doesn't let you view that...
Code: Select all
$140    Cooler Master Gladiator 600 (Black)    
$59    Kingston HyperX DDR3 PC12800/1600MHz CL8 2x2GB DDR3 memory stick        
$75    Gigabyte Superb 550P 550W PSU    
$302    Intel Core i5 2500K 3.3GHz Socket 1155 Box CPU
$189    Gigabyte GA-H55M-UD2H    Motherboard        
$95    Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 64MB 1TB 3.5 inch S-ATA HDD
$202    EVGA GeForce GTX 650 SC HDMI Dual-DVI 1GB


Oh and don't take this as a gospel shopping list, you will want to make sure RAM is roughly matched to motherboard and whether something like that H55 chipset m/b will do the job for you later re ports/accessories and o/clocking

Good luck mate, and keep us posted thumbup1.gif
Last edited by deeknow on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deans repaints: http://www.deeknow.com/
X570 Mini-ITX m/b - Ryzen7 5700X3D (8c/16t) - RTX 2060-super - 32GB 3600MHz DDR4 - Win10 - P3Dv5.3
User avatar
deeknow
NZFF Pro
 
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:15 pm
Posts: 4448
Location: NZHN

Postby Naki » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:23 am

Thanks for the reply guys..very good info...just got a unexpected bonus cheque so I might up the budget a bit (but got to weigh this up with wife's shopping list of new house, car, lounge suite, dining room suite and fridge!)...and allow for a better GPU.

The other option to save money is to use my existing hard drive? My existing GPU is 9800GT 1GB which isnt that old and still works - so maybe I could sell or use this.

I completely forgot about the OS - I'm on XP home but this really needs to be upgraded so I might go for the Win 7 option mentioned above.

Im not too fussed on FPS (im happy at 20 to 30 FPS) and my demands aren't that great as I usually fly warbirds and GA over sparse ORBX territory..one thing I would like to do is up my autogen. I was quite happy with old system (GPU as abover with AMD 2.3 GHZ dual core) apart from the autogen to a certain extent.
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby Naki » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:34 am

Once again I appreciate the time you two have spent on advice.

1 question on the GPU - nVidia GTX 460 or GTX 650? What is better for FSX?
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby Ian Warren » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:52 am

I'm still running a now old GTX480 1536MB GDDRS and you see the results here so maybe the best for price with your budget .
Image
User avatar
Ian Warren
NZFF Pro
 
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 5:23 pm
Posts: 41187
Location: AREA 51

Postby IslandBoy77 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:53 am

Naki wrote:
QUOTE (Naki @ Jan 23 2013,11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Once again I appreciate the time you two have spent on advice.

1 question on the GPU - nVidia GTX 460 or GTX 650? What is better for FSX?

From the various comparisons I've done, I personally would prefer the 460 in terms of bang for buck. The 650 has a few places where it exceeds the 460, but funnily enough, the 460 still has a lot of firepower - which is probably why it was so expensive in the day, and even now still sells for $130 - $170 on TM second hand. There are 2 or 3 460's on TM at the moment: if you can pick the one that HASN'T been overclocked (just ask the seller), and there are no known or suspected issues (haven't seen such from any of the 10-odd cards I've watched / asked questions on over the last month), then you will get yourself a VERY good card at a very reasonable price.

While I've not been able to test the theory, it's my view that, due to the programming limitations of FSX, the newer cards bring little advantage over some of the older cards - unless they've got significantly higher real-world through-put. It's a real mission delving into graphic cards to find out how good they REALLY are on any given rig, but as others have noted, spending money on the CPU (raw speed) and SSD / HDD produces more value than a super top-end video card.
User avatar
IslandBoy77
Senior Member
 
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:23 pm
Posts: 1020
Location: Napier, New Zealand

Postby Naki » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:45 pm

ok thanks for the input IB
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby Naki » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:20 pm

Still stuffing around and haven't got a new PC but its now my birthday and got new house, car, lounge and dining suite out of the way so PC is next (and laptop is dying). Still restricted in budget but at least the boss has now approved expenditure (you know I'm serious with those words!). Only other condition that I buy one built up...thinking about this one on Trademe...any comments/feedback?..keeping in mind that I fly GA/warbirds in Orbx NZ (ie not FPS hungry addons)

Hardware

- CPU: The very latest "4th Generation" 22nm Intel Haswell i5 4670 ( i5 3570 replacement ) 3.4Ghz/3.8Ghz turbo core x 4 Quad Core LGA 1150 6MB Cache Super Processor.

-MB: Asus / Gigabyte New Intel B85 Chipset ~USB 3.0 & SATA3 6Gb/s Ready , Ultra Durable !

-RAM: 16GB DDR3 1600 dual channel

-Hard Drive: Seagate 1TB ( 1000GB ) SATA3 High Performance 7200RPM , 64MB Cache, 6.0 Gb/s --> Double SATA2 's bandwidth

-Video Card: nVidia new beast icon_arrow.gif GTX 650 1GB DDR5 , VGA, DVI , HDMI , DX11 Ready. ~~achieve excellent gaming and multimedia performance with this super rocket!

-Case: Thermaltake V3 Black mid-tower gaming Case comes with 1x 12cm blue LED rear fan to extract heat from chassis. 500W Powersupply

-Sound : Integrated 8-channel HD audio

-Lan: integrated Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000) controllers

-Optical: LG/Samsung 24X Double Layer SATA DVDRW.

-USB: 8 ( 1x USB 2.0 and 1x USB 3.0 in the front, 4x USB 2.0 & 2x USB 3.0 at back ) ~ True USB 3.0 supports: transfers data 10X faster and is also backward compatible with USB 2.0 components.


-Adobe Acrobat PDF Reader
Last edited by Naki on Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby Ian Warren » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:56 pm

Naki wrote:
QUOTE (Naki @ Jul 16 2013,10:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
-Adobe Acrobat PDF Reader

And a P-40 winkyy.gif
Image
User avatar
Ian Warren
NZFF Pro
 
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 5:23 pm
Posts: 41187
Location: AREA 51

Postby Fozzer » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:33 pm

...do you know what.... winkyy.gif ....

My trusty old FS 2004, with all sorts of goodies installed, runs so trouble-free and smoothly with everything maxed, that I still cant force myself to spent ridiculous amounts of money on upgrading my Year 2005, Dell Dimenson BTX tower to make it suitable (ATX) for running my FSX (which rarely gets used anyway)!

I was brought up on the gradual, low-cost, hardware moves from FS '98 > FS 2000 > FS 2002 > FS 2004 with my home-built computers, but the step-up to FSX in hardware requirements was crazy, and a recipe for all sorts of on-going problems.. angry.gif ...!

Paul...my FS 2004 does exactly what it says on the box, with the hardware that I've already got!... biggrin.gif...!
Last edited by Fozzer on Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paul Fosbery.

Windows 11. HP Vitus 15L Ryzen Desktop Gaming Computer + BenQ 24-inch Gaming Monitor. Thrustmaster T Flight Stick X.

A few tasty Motorbikes!
User avatar
Fozzer
NZFF Pro
 
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:29 pm
Posts: 2428
Location: Hereford, Herefordshire, England

Postby Naki » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:17 am

Ian Warren wrote:
QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Jul 16 2013,10:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And a P-40 winkyy.gif


..and a T-28 and a An-2...that A-4 also looks pretty good...maybe that Staggerwing..........

Fozzer wrote:
QUOTE (Fozzer @ Jul 16 2013,11:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...do you know what.... winkyy.gif ....

My trusty old FS 2004, with all sorts of goodies installed, runs so trouble-free and smoothly with everything maxed, that I still cant force myself to spent ridiculous amounts of money on upgrading my Year 2005, Dell Dimenson BTX tower to make it suitable (ATX) for running my FSX (which rarely gets used anyway)!

I was brought up on the gradual, low-cost, hardware moves from FS '98 > FS 2000 > FS 2002 > FS 2004 with my home-built computers, but the step-up to FSX in hardware requirements was crazy, and a recipe for all sorts of on-going problems.. angry.gif ...!

Paul...my FS 2004 does exactly what it says on the box, with the hardware that I've already got!... biggrin.gif...!


I dumped FS9 quite late in the piece but now I proabably have more FSX addons than I did iin FS9 so FSX it is...my issue is that I dont anything to run any FS at the moment - so a new PC is the only option.

I am also debating between a 660GTX or 650 GTX GPU and whether an I7 is worth it...?

How 'bout this system?

CPU: The "4th Generation" 22nm Intel Haswell i7 4770 ( 3770 replacement ) 3.4Ghz/3.9Ghz turbo core x 4 Quad Core LGA 1150 8MB Cache Super Processor.

-MB: Asus / Gigabyte New Intel B85 Chipset ~USB 3.0 & SATA3 6Gb/s Ready , Ultra Durable !

-RAM: Kingston 8GB DDR3 1600 dual channel

-HDD: Seagate 1TB SATA3 high performance hard drive, 7200RPM 64 MB Cache , 6.0 Gb/s --> Double SATA2 's bandwidth

-Video Card: nVidia new beast icon_arrow.gif GTX 650 1GB DDR5 , VGA, DVI , HDMI , DX11 Ready. ~~achieve excellent gaming and multimedia performance with this super rocket!

-Case: Top Brand Silverstone Gaming Case ( Full-meshed front panel design. 1 front Red LED cooling fan ensures that the case runs cool even when playing the most demanding games ) . 500W powersupply.

-Sound : Integrated 8-channel HD audio

-Lan: integrated Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000) controllers

-Optical: LG/Samsung 24X Double Layer SATA DVDRW.

-USB: 8 ( 2 x USB 3.0 in the front, 6 at back, Include another 2 USB3.0 ) ~ True USB 3.0 supports: transfers data 10X faster and is also backward compatible with USB 2.0 components.
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby toprob » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:51 am

i5/i7 really comes down to your budget -- I think they both run FSX well. The systems you are looking at will certainly be able to cope with 'normal' simming, you just need to figure whether you need something which can deal with any future needs as well. But really a 'budget' machine can run FSX these days.

I'm not much help with hardware, but I do have a new system which I'm happy with. Not too sure about whether it's worth springing for the better graphics card, I have the 650ti, which is meant to be somewhere between the 650 and 660, and it seems to do the job.

I have the i5 3570 3.4, and have no interest in overclocking, but if you find that sort of thing fun then it might be the way to go -- get a 'K' CPU -- are then any Haswell 'K's at the moment?

RAM is one way to future-proof, but you can do that in the future. For FSX, a good fast 8GB is fine.

Apart from Ivy Bridge vs Haswell, the only other major difference for me is the SSD -- now that I've tried it (for the OS, not FSX) I don't think I could go back:)

Be prepared to do some work setting up FSX -- I had Event Viewer open for two days to copy/paste crash info into Google, just to get the thing running reliably. We really need a brand-new 64bit simulator...

I think you'll be very happy with your 'ball-park' specs, although this depends on your current system -- for me, a proper FSX system is an eye-opener!
User avatar
toprob
NZFF Pro
 
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:56 pm
Posts: 6711
Location: Upper Hutt

Postby rocky289 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:36 am

Here is the componant list for my next system.
Just waiting for the prices to come down a bit more.

Mobo Asus P8 Z77-V

CPU Intel Core i7 3770k

Memory G-Skill F3-1600C9D-16GXM

PSU Silverstone Strider ST60F-ES

GPU GeForce GTX660ti

HD Seagate ST500DM002

DVD Asus DRW-24B5ST

Case Silverstone Redline RL01-USB

Fans 2x Artic F12 120mm

OS Win 7 x64 HP
rocky289
Forum Addict
 
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:20 am
Posts: 283
Location: Central Otago

Postby Naki » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:14 pm

Thanks for the tips guys...I leaning towards the I7 as per my other post with a GTX650ti as per Robin's PC. The I5 as specified in my other post is only $20 cheaper than the I7 - although the I7 has less RAM.

Before I started looking this time around I never heard of Haswell...is that an upgrade of Ivy Bridge?
Last edited by Naki on Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby rocky289 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:57 pm

Yes Haswell is the successor to Ivy Bridge.
LGA 1150
rocky289
Forum Addict
 
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2008 9:20 am
Posts: 283
Location: Central Otago

Postby Naki » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:01 pm

ok ready to push the button...but now settling on an I5 4670 with 2 GB GTX 650 due to budget restraints but apart from that the system will be as below...should run FSX ok? ...hardware gurus out there?

CPU: The "4th Generation" 22nm Intel Haswell i7 4770 ( 3770 replacement ) 3.4Ghz/3.9Ghz turbo core x 4 Quad Core LGA 1150 8MB Cache Super Processor.

-MB: Asus / Gigabyte New Intel B85 Chipset ~USB 3.0 & SATA3 6Gb/s Ready , Ultra Durable !

-RAM: Kingston 8GB DDR3 1600 dual channel

-HDD: Seagate 1TB SATA3 high performance hard drive, 7200RPM 64 MB Cache , 6.0 Gb/s --> Double SATA2 's bandwidth

-Video Card: nVidia new beast GTX 650 1GB DDR5 , VGA, DVI , HDMI , DX11 Ready. ~~achieve excellent gaming and multimedia performance with this super rocket!

-Case: Top Brand Silverstone Gaming Case ( Full-meshed front panel design. 1 front Red LED cooling fan ensures that the case runs cool even when playing the most demanding games ) . 500W powersupply.

-Sound : Integrated 8-channel HD audio

-Lan: integrated Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000) controllers

-Optical: LG/Samsung 24X Double Layer SATA DVDRW.
-USB: 8 ( 2 x USB 3.0 in the front, 6 at back, Include another 2 USB3.0 ) ~ True USB 3.0 supports: transfers data 10X faster and is also backward compatible with USB 2.0 components.
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby Yob » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:05 pm

Sounds fine, post some shot of it when ya are unpacking it. It should run fsx fine, the graphics card though my not run rex and ground textures as aswell as a 660 nvida.

But apart from that sounds great. thumbup1.gif
Eli'jah
Yob
Sim-holic
 
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:04 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Was NZCH

Postby Naki » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:15 am

660 is no longer available and replaced by 770 ... Bit out of my budget. So ... Making decision today ... I'm hoping the above should be ok for the type of simming I do....
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Postby Naki » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:02 am

New PC now on the way... In about a week or so I should be up and flying....now to find all my add ons!
User avatar
Naki
NZFF Pro
 
Topic author
Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:03 pm
Posts: 7170
Location: Tauranga

Next

Return to Technical Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests