NZ Warbirds DC-3

[Adamski]

I went to the Pearl Harbour display at Ardmore last weekend and got to thinking "that AIRFORCE text really needs sorting out", so I tweaked it a bit ...

Here's a short trip from its Ardmore home (I just *love* this aircraft ) :







I also tweaked the prop textures, door exit etc.

I've asked Jon Murchison to look over these edits as applied to his default DC-3 NZ Warbirds repaint.

[SgtPepper]

Nice shots Adamski, is that Waiheke in the second one?

I'm a fan of the DC-3 but at this stage just use the default one.

[Adamski]

QUOTE (SgtPepper @ Dec 8 2010, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice shots Adamski, is that Waiheke in the second one?

I'm a fan of the DC-3 but at this stage just use the default one.

Correct! Well spotted, Batman!

Jon Murchison's repaint for the default DC-3 is pretty good! www.flightsimx.co.nz

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Dec 8 2010, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does anyone here on NZFF use the MAAM-Sim model? I'm wondering if I can persuade MAAM to allow some sort of co-licensing where revenue goes to both MAAM and NZ Warbirds.

Adam , YIP have the DC-3 , its a little dated now , Just Flight released one only in the last couple off weeks - it s the Vertigo Studio's I'm waiting on , Just flight is good but .... Vertigo seem to go that much further .

[Adamski]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Dec 9 2010, 12:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Adam , YIP have the DC-3 , its a little dated now , Just Flight released one only in the last couple off weeks - it s the Vertigo Studio's I'm waiting on , Just flight is good but .... Vertigo seem to go that much further .

The JF one is a little short of the mark. Uses the same pit/avionics for all models ... and doesn't have the same model/engine variant of the NZ Warbirds DC-3. I looked at the VS forum ... not a lot going on there ... except by a certain Ian Warren

BTW - I stuffed up. This isn't the MAAM-SIM repaint I was retouching - it was some other variation of Jon Murchison's paint. Confused? I know I am!!! Too many Daks in my hangar!

[Ian Warren]

Adam , the Awesome foursome Dak paint is a copy off the Warbirds DC-3 but the scheme is not authentic , I have the paint plans here acquired from RNZAF archives , Jason Hunt use these to paint the MAAM Dak for 2004 .

I should post these on the VS Dakota site , maybe we would get an superb out the box paint

[Splitpin]

Adam Great shots. I love the lighting in the last one, and the angle in the first one....beautiful.

[spongebob206]

Awesome Mate

Cheers

[Wildbillkelso]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Dec 9 2010, 02:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BTW - I stuffed up. This isn't the MAAM-SIM repaint I was retouching ...

That's what I had on my mind, mate!
Due to the various repaints I did on the MAAM Goon, I think I knew her down to the very last rivet...

Nice shots anyway!

Cheers,
Markus.

[Adamski]

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 11 2010, 04:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I had on my mind, mate!
Due to the various repaints I did on the MAAM Goon, I think I knew her down to the very last rivet...

Nice shots anyway!

Thanks, Markus! I did think I was "losing the plot" at one stage. The MAAM/NZWB DC-3 I found (finally) was Jason Hunt's model (I think) but even that needs re-working if it's to reflect the current *flying* version of the NZWB Dak.

I eventually (successfully) re-installed my MAAM-Sim DC-3. It's still a bit of a messy install upgrade for FSX, but not as bad as trying to get a POSKY aircraft set up !

So ... wait for it ... if you know the Dak so well ... how about you redoing a skin for NZWB/MAAM ? I could nip down to Ardmore and ask if I could take some reference pics if needed.

@Ian: "I have the paint plans here acquired from RNZAF archives" Do you still have these? Are they freely available? Do they correspond to the current (flying) Dak?

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Dec 11 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you still have these? Are they freely available? Do they correspond to the current (flying) Dak?

I have details off a couple of the scheme the RNZAF used been stored away in Ian archives placement and marking sizes and fonts used .

[Wildbillkelso]

Are we talking about ZK-DAK / "NZ3546"?
http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.php?id=787951

More pics:
http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/search4.cgi?s...=reg&srng=2

I do have Jason Hunt's great NZ3551 rendition on the ramp, and I thought I've seen this "NAC hybrid" livery of ZK-DAK arleady done before, but I may be wrong...
The older "RAF green" variant looks nice as well, doesn't it?

So maybe this is going to become a double feature...

Cheers,
Markus.

[Adamski]

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 11 2010, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are we talking about ZK-DAK / "NZ3546"?
http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.php?id=787951

More pics:
http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/search4.cgi?s...=reg&srng=2

I do have Jason Hunt's great NZ3551 rendition on the ramp, and I thought I've seen this "NAC hybrid" livery of ZK-DAK arleady done before, but I may be wrong...
The older "RAF green" variant looks nice as well, doesn't it?

So maybe this is going to become a double feature...

Markus - yes - that's the one (NZ3546)! ... though your first link (2008) is already slightly out of date. eg. The "NAC" logos are no longer there. There may be other differences.

Yes - I like the green one too. When I first came to NZ, the aircraft had its D-Day stripes - and I could have sworn it was olive brown, yet most of the pics I can find show it as green. The current 46 Sqdn paint is stunning in Real Life ... very elegant and dignified!

The Jason Hunt NZ3551 looks to me to be very different to the current [real] NZ3546. The type is spaced differently etc. etc. The MAAM-Sim aircraft is a great improvement on the default FSX Dak (which isn't *too* bad, I don't think!) though I'm not sure how many MAAM-Sim owners are out there.

Are you implying that you're considering doing these repaint(s). If so ... WOW! ... great! I have some pics of my own (quite recent) but would be quite happy to ask NZWB if it'd be OK for me to do drop by and take whatever may be necessary.

[Wildbillkelso]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Dec 11 2010, 10:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you implying that you're considering doing these repaint(s). If so ... WOW! ... great!

Yes, I do!
Did some Northamerican paints on her recently and was always longing for a decent NZ paint to release.

QUOTE

... though your first link (2008) is already slightly out of date. eg. The "NAC" logos are no longer there.[/quote]
Are you sure?
This image here
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Douglas-C-4...rain/1825509/L/
was taken just three weeks ago with NAC letters still applied...

But it would be no big thing to do a "2009" version with NAC letters and a very current status without.

QUOTE

The Jason Hunt NZ3551 looks to me to be very different to the current [real] NZ3546. The type is spaced differently etc. etc.[/quote]
Besides the lettering (yellow outlined, as it seems), the emergency exits and their arrows look different, and the wings and lower fuselage is painted (with Coroguard, I presume).
All in all, the differences are significant enough to justify a completely new repaint!

QUOTE

... though I'm not sure how many MAAM-Sim owners are out there.[/quote]
Well, at least a stable basis of them makes use of my various paints...

QUOTE

I have some pics of my own (quite recent) but would be quite happy to ask NZWB if it'd be OK for me to do drop by and take whatever may be necessary.[/quote]
Thanks for your offer!
I'll drop you a note if I'm running out of details.

Cheers,
Markus.

Wildbillkelso

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by Adamski » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:19 am

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 12 2010, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This image here
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Douglas-C-4...rain/1825509/L/
was taken just three weeks ago with NAC letters still applied...

Markus ... you're a *star*!!!! We're definitely going to have to work out honorary NZ citizenship for you!!

You're quite right about the "NAC" logos . I was referring to the ones that used to be near the cockpit (which *have* gone). I didn't realise the fuselage ones were still there - as my latest pic (below) conveniently masks out precisely the area of interest



The big problem I had when fiddling with the *default* DC-3 model was the reflecting wing thing ... so I couldn't do the big under-wing reg numbers. I think the MAAM-Sim is OK in that respect though <?>.

I'm delighted you're tackling this one - as NZ-DAK is such a beautiful aircraft - in FS and reality.

Last edited by Adamski on Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by Wildbillkelso » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:17 pm

QUOTE (Adamski @ Dec 12 2010, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We're definitely going to have to work out honorary NZ citizenship for you!!

Thanks, mate!
I'll take you up on your offer once I'm retired (just 23 years till then...). Can't imagine any better place to spend my "after-work-life" than your splendid country!

Nice pic of the tail section!
The aft fuselage is one of the tricky parts of the MAAM Dak (besides the cursed nose cone...), but it's these difficulties which make painting her always a challenge. Fortunately, there are no mirrored parts (like the stock DC-3 has), so the wing's regos will be done correctly.

While searching for further references (one of those things that make repainting such fun!), I've found some nice pics by a guy called "Deeknow" (sounds familiar, eh?) at Flickr database:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/deeknow/tags/nz3546/
Though I don't know who these guys on the images were, they definitely had some fun visiting this Dak!

If I'm not too wrong, ZK-DAK is a true DC-3 (port side pax door), so this model will be done on the MAAM passenger model (no extension pack needed). The only bummer is the wrong pax door, as the model is fitted with the right-hand exit. But similar to my recent "WIEN AIR ALASKA" repaint, I'll simulate the left-hand door by painting it. Hope you won't mind...



Don't bother the wrong port side aileron trim tab: It will be omitted!
Some of the usual WIP shots will be following soon.

Cheers,
Markus.

Wildbillkelso

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by Adamski » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:11 pm

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 12 2010, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice pic of the tail section!

Thanks - here's another one that may be of use. It was a display day, so I couldn't really wander around - so I only got a few - all of the port side - so no detail for you for anything stbd wise.

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 12 2010, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I'm not too wrong, ZK-DAK is a true DC-3 (port side pax door), so this model will be done on the MAAM passenger model (no extension pack needed). The only bummer is the wrong pax door, as the model is fitted with the right-hand exit. But similar to my recent "WIEN AIR ALASKA" repaint, I'll simulate the left-hand door by painting it. Hope you won't mind...

From the site (www.nzwarbirds.org.nz): "This particular aircraft (c/n 26480, s/n 43-49219) was manufactured as a C-47B by Douglas Aircraft, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma and delivered to the USAAF on October 30, 1944. During World War 2 it served with various USAAF Units and Squadrons in the Continental United States before being converted to a C-47D on June 30, 1946."

This is all sounding too good to be true!!

Adamski

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by Wildbillkelso » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:58 pm

Aahhh - I see!

A closer look to this pic:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Douglas-C-4...rain/1510883/L/
reveals the remains of the former C-47 cargo door frames. These clamshell doors obviously got closed with the pax door retrofitted. The lower door's hinges of course have to be depicted.
But since the pax model is fitted with those nice curtains, I'll take it.

Here's my (first) request:
What does the lettering underneath the Squadron crest tell?
"0800 FLY DC3" is quite clear, but what about the lower line?

A detail shot (undistorted angle preferred) of the door surroundings would be quite helpful, especially concerning the fire extinguisher and axe symbol and the lettering at the door handle as well.
If there's any tiny lettering I haven't discovered yet ("No Step", "Jack here" or "Do not touch this")?

Cheers,
Markus.

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by Adamski » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:22 am

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 13 2010, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A closer look to this pic:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Douglas-C-4...rain/1510883/L/
reveals the remains of the former C-47 cargo door frames. These clamshell doors obviously got closed with the pax door retrofitted. The lower door's hinges of course have to be depicted.
But since the pax model is fitted with those nice curtains, I'll take it.

Yes ... gotta love those "chintzy" curtains!!!

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 13 2010, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's my (first) request:
What does the lettering underneath the Squadron crest tell?
"0800 FLY DC3" is quite clear, but what about the lower line?

Looks to me as if it's "www.flydakota.co.nz" ...



... which is a shame as I don't think that domain is alive/active. The "DC3" above is good if you want to to pin down the typeface used. I haven't got a closer pic for the white on red b/g lettering around the handle, but I wonder whether we'd have the resolution to show it anyway <???>. The "WELCOME ABOARD" would be nice ... if we can get to animate that door ...

Here are some good pics: http://rnzaf.proboards.com/

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 13 2010, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A detail shot (undistorted angle preferred) of the door surroundings would be quite helpful, especially concerning the fire extinguisher and axe symbol and the lettering at the door handle as well.
If there's any tiny lettering I haven't discovered yet ("No Step", "Jack here" or "Do not touch this")?

That might require a "site visit" (yay!!!). I could email them and ask them if I'd be able to walk around and take some shots. Early summer here, so plenty of light .. and long days.

Does anyone here at NZFF have any specific people I could contact? My main contact in the past has been Jessica ... but that was usually to do with booking flights etc.

If I can a visit organised, we're probably best going to PM and you can give my any specific requests. I understand about the necessity no-distortion square-on shots. Would you want any internal or cockpit shots? Ideally, it'd be nice to try and find the actual instructions/drawings to the signwriters ... they must be on file somewhere!!

Last edited by Adamski on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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by Wildbillkelso » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:14 am

Don't bother the axe!
Built them from scratch.

Here are the first results:








One more bummer:
The pax model has a cabin air intake in the nose cone: No chance to place the "46" there!
And it has just 7 windows instead of the C-47's 8.
I'd leave it up to you what you'd more prefer to see:
Curtains or nose rego?

Wildbillkelso

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[Adamski]

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 12 2010, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This image here
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Douglas-C-4...rain/1825509/L/
was taken just three weeks ago with NAC letters still applied...

Markus ... you're a *star*!!!! We're definitely going to have to work out honorary NZ citizenship for you!!

You're quite right about the "NAC" logos . I was referring to the ones that used to be near the cockpit (which *have* gone). I didn't realise the fuselage ones were still there - as my latest pic (below) conveniently masks out precisely the area of interest



The big problem I had when fiddling with the *default* DC-3 model was the reflecting wing thing ... so I couldn't do the big under-wing reg numbers. I think the MAAM-Sim is OK in that respect though <?>.

I'm delighted you're tackling this one - as NZ-DAK is such a beautiful aircraft - in FS and reality.

[Wildbillkelso]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Dec 12 2010, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We're definitely going to have to work out honorary NZ citizenship for you!!

Thanks, mate!
I'll take you up on your offer once I'm retired (just 23 years till then...). Can't imagine any better place to spend my "after-work-life" than your splendid country!

Nice pic of the tail section!
The aft fuselage is one of the tricky parts of the MAAM Dak (besides the cursed nose cone...), but it's these difficulties which make painting her always a challenge. Fortunately, there are no mirrored parts (like the stock DC-3 has), so the wing's regos will be done correctly.

While searching for further references (one of those things that make repainting such fun!), I've found some nice pics by a guy called "Deeknow" (sounds familiar, eh?) at Flickr database:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/deeknow/tags/nz3546/
Though I don't know who these guys on the images were, they definitely had some fun visiting this Dak!

If I'm not too wrong, ZK-DAK is a true DC-3 (port side pax door), so this model will be done on the MAAM passenger model (no extension pack needed). The only bummer is the wrong pax door, as the model is fitted with the right-hand exit. But similar to my recent "WIEN AIR ALASKA" repaint, I'll simulate the left-hand door by painting it. Hope you won't mind...



Don't bother the wrong port side aileron trim tab: It will be omitted!
Some of the usual WIP shots will be following soon.

Cheers,
Markus.

[Adamski]

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 12 2010, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice pic of the tail section!

Thanks - here's another one that may be of use. It was a display day, so I couldn't really wander around - so I only got a few - all of the port side - so no detail for you for anything stbd wise.

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 12 2010, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I'm not too wrong, ZK-DAK is a true DC-3 (port side pax door), so this model will be done on the MAAM passenger model (no extension pack needed). The only bummer is the wrong pax door, as the model is fitted with the right-hand exit. But similar to my recent "WIEN AIR ALASKA" repaint, I'll simulate the left-hand door by painting it. Hope you won't mind...

From the site (www.nzwarbirds.org.nz): "This particular aircraft (c/n 26480, s/n 43-49219) was manufactured as a C-47B by Douglas Aircraft, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma and delivered to the USAAF on October 30, 1944. During World War 2 it served with various USAAF Units and Squadrons in the Continental United States before being converted to a C-47D on June 30, 1946."

This is all sounding too good to be true!!

[Wildbillkelso]

Aahhh - I see!

A closer look to this pic:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Douglas-C-4...rain/1510883/L/
reveals the remains of the former C-47 cargo door frames. These clamshell doors obviously got closed with the pax door retrofitted. The lower door's hinges of course have to be depicted.
But since the pax model is fitted with those nice curtains, I'll take it.

Here's my (first) request:
What does the lettering underneath the Squadron crest tell?
"0800 FLY DC3" is quite clear, but what about the lower line?

A detail shot (undistorted angle preferred) of the door surroundings would be quite helpful, especially concerning the fire extinguisher and axe symbol and the lettering at the door handle as well.
If there's any tiny lettering I haven't discovered yet ("No Step", "Jack here" or "Do not touch this")?

Cheers,
Markus.

[Adamski]

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 13 2010, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A closer look to this pic:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Douglas-C-4...rain/1510883/L/
reveals the remains of the former C-47 cargo door frames. These clamshell doors obviously got closed with the pax door retrofitted. The lower door's hinges of course have to be depicted.
But since the pax model is fitted with those nice curtains, I'll take it.

Yes ... gotta love those "chintzy" curtains!!!

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 13 2010, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's my (first) request:
What does the lettering underneath the Squadron crest tell?
"0800 FLY DC3" is quite clear, but what about the lower line?

Looks to me as if it's "www.flydakota.co.nz" ...



... which is a shame as I don't think that domain is alive/active. The "DC3" above is good if you want to to pin down the typeface used. I haven't got a closer pic for the white on red b/g lettering around the handle, but I wonder whether we'd have the resolution to show it anyway <???>. The "WELCOME ABOARD" would be nice ... if we can get to animate that door ...

Here are some good pics: http://rnzaf.proboards.com/

QUOTE (Wildbillkelso @ Dec 13 2010, 12:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A detail shot (undistorted angle preferred) of the door surroundings would be quite helpful, especially concerning the fire extinguisher and axe symbol and the lettering at the door handle as well.
If there's any tiny lettering I haven't discovered yet ("No Step", "Jack here" or "Do not touch this")?

That might require a "site visit" (yay!!!). I could email them and ask them if I'd be able to walk around and take some shots. Early summer here, so plenty of light .. and long days.

Does anyone here at NZFF have any specific people I could contact? My main contact in the past has been Jessica ... but that was usually to do with booking flights etc.

If I can a visit organised, we're probably best going to PM and you can give my any specific requests. I understand about the necessity no-distortion square-on shots. Would you want any internal or cockpit shots? Ideally, it'd be nice to try and find the actual instructions/drawings to the signwriters ... they must be on file somewhere!!

[Wildbillkelso]

Don't bother the axe!
Built them from scratch.

Here are the first results:








One more bummer:
The pax model has a cabin air intake in the nose cone: No chance to place the "46" there!
And it has just 7 windows instead of the C-47's 8.
I'd leave it up to you what you'd more prefer to see:
Curtains or nose rego?