Wellington Bus drivers

[victor_alpha_charlie]

I'm not quite so lucky

One stop, bus every hour. 30 mins (if on time) during peak hour.

[BAT22]

You got a very bad problem young man! I dont care who your dad is but you drive a car which is way beyond your abilities and how old are you? Then you have the nerve to be critical of Bus Drivers. Well let me enlighten you about Bus Drivers.

1, They pay $100 per year to maintain that licence and have to undergo medical check to maintain that licence endorsement.

2, They have to pass a Car Licence Test again to get that licence Endorsement.

3, They hold a Class 2 or Higher Licence which they have to pass a test to get.

4, They undergo Police vetting to obtain a licence.

Most of them/correction all of them have more driving experiance than you, so back off Bus Drivers because you had a unfortuante prang with one which more than likely was your fault.

Your attitude no wonder you not met a good Bus Driver.

[benwynn]

Somebodys a Bus Driver....?

If you dont mind me saying, that comment was totally un-nessacary. Just beacuse hes not 30 years old doesnt mean hes a good driver. I have a real problem with that. Sure hes young, and its been proven younger drivers cause accidents- But how would you know?

All of them with more experience, how would you know? Too Far Red Car!

[NZ255]

I'd say

[ardypilot]

QUOTE (BAT22 @ Apr 9 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got a very bad problem young man! I dont care who your dad is but you drive a car which is way beyond your abilities and how old are you? Then you have the nerve to be critical of Bus Drivers. Well let me enlighten you about Bus Drivers.

<snip>

Most of them/correction all of them have more driving experiance than you, so back off Bus Drivers because you had a unfortuante prang with one which more than likely was your fault.

Your attitude no wonder you not met a good Bus Driver.

Feel better ? Jolly good. Now, based on 13 years spent driving buses and coaches in NZ and London and around Europe, allow ME to enlighten YOU about bus drivers.

QUOTE

1, They pay $100 per year to maintain that licence and have to undergo medical check to maintain that licence endorsement.[/quote]
The company pays the costs of the license and the P endorsement, and the medical check only legally has to be done when something needs renewing, about every 5 years. Any more than that is an internal company matter.

QUOTE

2, They have to pass a Car Licence Test again to get that licence Endorsement.[/quote]
I think you'll find most of us don't regard that as a big deal, if you want to drive a bus being able to drive a car should be a given - especially as you must have held a full drivers license for at least 2 years before you can apply for the P endorsement.

QUOTE

3, They hold a Class 2 or Higher Licence which they have to pass a test to get.[/quote]
Not necessarily. Hanhams in Auckland used to run a van on some low patronage routes on the weekend, that was a class 1 vehicle. In any case, all it means is they managed not to screw up too badly for half an hour while being tested or that they were lucky and the testing officer was looking the wrong way and didn't see what they did. When I did my truck license (we didn't have classes back then) I went through a very dark orange light while the cop was busy writing on his clipboard, and when I did my trailer (in a bendybus) a couple of years later I cut a corner and nearly squashed someone while the cop was watching the right mirror to see if I drifted out before turning. Neither rather serious error spotted, both tests passed with flying colours.

QUOTE

4, They undergo Police vetting to obtain a licence.[/quote]
So do taxi drivers. Do I need to say more ? Let's look at what the vetting covers, and see if there is anything at all in there about driving ability. Hmm. Nope.

Code: Select all

About the 'fit and proper person' check

Your application will be sent to the nearest Land Transport New Zealand regional office for a 'fit and proper person' check to be undertaken. The person who carries out the check considers any:

    * transport-related offences, especially relating to safety
    * history of mental health or behavioural problems
    * past complaints about a transport service you may have operated
    * history of persistent failure to pay fines for transport-related offences
    * criminal convictions (in New Zealand or overseas), including charges or convictions relating to violent or sexual offences, drug or firearms offences, or offences involving organised criminal activity
    * serious convictions - persons convicted of specified serious offences and who have been sentenced to imprisonment for a term exceeding 12 months, are prohibited from holding or applying for a passenger endorsement.  The specified serious offences are
          o murder
          o a sexual crime under Part VII of the Crimes Act 1961 that is punishable by seven or more years' imprisonment, <snip>
          o any offence committed outside New Zealand that, if committed within New Zealand, would constitute one of the above offences.

      Read a detailed list of offences in section 29A of the Land Transport Amendment Act 2005 (on the Knowledge Basket web site).
      Read a detailed list of offences under sections 144A and 144C of the Crimes Act 1961 (on the Knowledge Basket web site).

Any other information that is in the interest of public safety can also be taken into account.

A lot of experienced drivers have now left to drive trucks, or drive in Aus/US, and turnover is horrendous, so your claim that all bus drivers have more experience than someone is laughable. There are no entry standards for the job any more, drivers are too hard to get to worry about things like literacy or numeracy or ability, if you are capable of getting a license you can have the job. Simple fact is a lot of people driving buses these days can't drive within a lane around a corner, can't tell when there won't be enough room to get a bus through the gap, and don't have any idea how bad they are.

The company I work for - it's like Wellington Buses but it's not in Wellington - is no different to anyone else, including the place you presumably work for. We have drivers that I won't follow any closer than a bus length away, we have drivers that I won't be next to around corners, and we have drivers that I won't get on a bus with as a passenger. If you're a good bus driver you'll know exactly what I mean. If you want to start spluttering again , well, refer to "don't have any idea how bad they are" above.

Incidentally we also have a lot of good drivers who are extremely safe and manage to go years and years and years without so much as a scratch. They're outnumbered by the mediocre ones - that's the ones who are just sloppy, not the minority who are actually dangerous - but they are very much there.

Gary

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by BAT22 » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:09 pm

Lets see where shall we start!

1, Facts of the incident are only what young VAC has said. So thats up to the insurance company to decide considering the other driver will have a differant view on things. Secondly we are also going on limited information about what supposed to have happened.

Now lets start shall we! You make some claims which I may or may not dispute however you will also note the differance in how a Passenger Licence is obtained in this country. One thing we may or may not have in common.

Claim Number one

QUOTE

The company pays the costs of the license and the P endorsement, and the medical check only legally has to be done when something needs renewing, about every 5 years. Any more than that is an internal company matter.[/quote]

Not correct! I paid for the P endorsement and pay for the renewal each year, As I am a free agent. I am not a full time Bus Driver. Something that any person may do so if they want to earn money for pay or reward. Regards the medical I will conceed thats every 5 years.

QUOTE

I think you'll find most of us don't regard that as a big deal, if you want to drive a bus being able to drive a car should be a given - especially as you must have held a full drivers license for at least 2 years before you can apply for the P endorsement.[/quote]

Thats quite amusing, one of the things that you will note in comparison to Europe New Zealand is quite slow on that Driving a car equates to driving a Bus.

Now a class 2 licence is required on any Bus with a GLW of over 4500 tonnes which in the main is a Bus seating more than 12 passengers. Those Welligton buses are certainly Class 2 vehicles. Now when your talking Coaches you are also talking Class 4 Licences! Yet another test.

Shock and horror I have class 1, 2 and 4 and yes I drive Trucks as well and I have a Passenger endorsement I use on those days I fancy a change of scenery. Maybe my standards for driving are much higher than yours, well I hope they are considering I occasionally get to drive a Fire Appliance and probably because I paid the hard bucks for my licence and keep it impecable.
The thing that I do enjoy about driving a bus is that your passengers are in the main so grateful and happy with the service, but what annoys me is those that moan and complain about everything. I also laugh at the stupidity I see on the roads and the attitude of our wonderful car driving ferternity who think they can drive.

Judging by your response I would say you have little knowledge of Bus Driving other than what was given to you by an employer, and I can assume your aware of the requirements in Europe and how invalid our NZ licences are over there?
But ultimately this is about VACs little tangle with another road user that he claims his not his fault once again, despite his bragging on here on several occassions of how fast he can drive etc. I just hope that I dont here of a tangle between him and a Bus where people get hurt.

BAT22

 

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by victor_alpha_charlie » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm

QUOTE (BAT22 @ Apr 9 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got a very bad problem young man! I dont care who your dad is but you drive a car which is way beyond your abilities and how old are you? Then you have the nerve to be critical of Bus Drivers. Well let me enlighten you about Bus Drivers.

1, They pay $100 per year to maintain that licence and have to undergo medical check to maintain that licence endorsement.

2, They have to pass a Car Licence Test again to get that licence Endorsement.

3, They hold a Class 2 or Higher Licence which they have to pass a test to get.

4, They undergo Police vetting to obtain a licence.

Most of them/correction all of them have more driving experiance than you, so back off Bus Drivers because you had a unfortuante prang with one which more than likely was your fault.

Your attitude no wonder you not met a good Bus Driver.

I'm actually sick and tired of people like you. Were you there? No. Did you see it? No. I have photos. And where the hell does my dad come into this?

JUST BECAUSE I AM YOUNGER DOES NOT MEAN IT WAS MY FAULT.

If he went through all these tests, why was he stupid enough to come round a BLIND CORNER, MUCH TOO FAST TO EVER BE ABLE TO STOP, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.

That Skoda is not beyond my abilities, I've been taught by a racing driver who was very successful. I'm good enough at driving to know when it's appropriate and when it's not to go fast. Considering I was going about 20km/h, and was STOPPED by the time the bus hit me, with my mum and sister in the car with me, I don't think I was in the wrong matey.

I bet if you were driving in a car and it understeered you wouldn't even know what to do, so lay off, I'm actually a good driver.

My attitude is fully justified. It was clearly his fault, so if I was you I wouldn't embaress yourself by trying to defend someone who did something stupid.

Last edited by victor_alpha_charlie on Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by Peppermint » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:16 pm

QUOTE (BAT22 @ Apr 9 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got a very bad problem young man! I dont care who your dad is but you drive a car which is way beyond your abilities and how old are you? Then you have the nerve to be critical of Bus Drivers. Well let me enlighten you about Bus Drivers.

1, They pay $100 per year to maintain that licence and have to undergo medical check to maintain that licence endorsement.

2, They have to pass a Car Licence Test again to get that licence Endorsement.

3, They hold a Class 2 or Higher Licence which they have to pass a test to get.

4, They undergo Police vetting to obtain a licence.

Most of them/correction all of them have more driving experiance than you, so back off Bus Drivers because you had a unfortuante prang with one which more than likely was your fault.

Your attitude no wonder you not met a good Bus Driver.

Oh shut up. I'm so damn sick of people blaming us younger drivers for causing accidents, yes many of them are bad drivers and do cause a lot of accidents, but many of them are very well WAY better at driving than a lot of the critics out there. If people are going to sit back, and lay the blame on younger drivers, how are they going to improve? They worry that they're not doing things right, and have an accident. They're not to fully blame, they're pressured into thinking they're wrong.

So tell me one thing, if young drivers are 'so bad, don't have the experience etc etc' why are so many young drivers these days going into professional racing? Don't judge the whole population of under 25 year olds driving abilities, based on a few bad accidents made public and blown way out of proportion by the media, or by the few that intentionally cause the trouble.

Yes I agree that some bus drivers will have more experience than a lot of people, but too many of them don't. In the last 5 years I've only seen ONE bus driver actually WAIT before pulling out of a bus stop, every other one has just pulled out, no indicator, forced a lot of people to go OVER the center line or slammed their breaks on to avoid the bus. If it's a rule or law that buses have the right of way, it needs changing, it's stupid.

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by BAT22 » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:48 pm

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Apr 10 2008, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet if you were driving in a car and it understeered you wouldn't even know what to do, so lay off, I'm actually a good driver.

I wonder if you bother to read? Yes I would know wht to do if my car understeered actually I would know what to do if anything understeered car, bus or Truck. But then I am classed as an advanced driver not because of my licences but because of my experiance and yep you dont drive a Fire Appliance unless your capable of driving one with discipline.

Call me a dick head, or anything else you want, and that applies to any other young driver who wants to spout off it was a age thing. Not true I see idiots of all ages on the road and get to pick them up in many ways. You have been driving how long? Nothing to do with age its experiance and yes I used to think I was invincible once and now I like to see safety.

So keep your head cool, you have your opinion I have mine.

BAT22

 

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by victor_alpha_charlie » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:06 pm

But your 'opinion' is completely unjustified. Ok, I've only been driving 8 years, but in that time I've driven cars, trucks, and even (GASP!) a bus, and have learned off other people, whether it's my dad, my instructor, or the idiot that just pulled out in front of me, what to do and what not to do.

I'm not saying I won't keep learning or become a better driver, just that (hard as it is for nearly all old people to believe) I'm not actually a bad driver now.

Last edited by victor_alpha_charlie on Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by BAT22 » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:15 pm

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Apr 10 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But your 'opinion' is completely unjustified. Ok, I've only been driving 8 years, but in that time I've driven cars, trucks, and even (GASP!) a bus, and have learned off other people, whether it's my dad, my instructor, or the idiot that just pulled out in front of me, what to do and what not to do.

I'm not saying I won't keep learning or become a better driver, just that (hard as it is for nearly all old people to believe) I'm not actually a bad driver now.

Your 16 years of age yet claim to have been driving for 8 years? Sorry my boy that dont count until you have a Full Licence or legally allowed to drive with other motorists on the road.

The fact is you slagged off Bus Drivers in general based on your view and bold claims of experiance. I hope I never read your name on an accident report.

When your insurance company decides whose at fault come back to us in the meantime I am finished arguing with you and will be awaiting your report. With a smile or my face and apology if needed.

BAT22

 

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by victor_alpha_charlie » Thu Apr 10, 2008 3:58 pm

QUOTE (BAT22 @ Apr 10 2008, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your 16 years of age yet claim to have been driving for 8 years? Sorry my boy that dont count until you have a Full Licence or legally allowed to drive with other motorists on the road.

The fact is you slagged off Bus Drivers in general based on your view and bold claims of experiance. I hope I never read your name on an accident report.

When your insurance company decides whose at fault come back to us in the meantime I am finished arguing with you and will be awaiting your report. With a smile or my face and apology if needed.

Will do, shouldn't be too long until it comes back showing he was fully at fault.
Seeing as I don't have a full licence, does that mean I have negative 6 months of experience?

Last edited by victor_alpha_charlie on Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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by ardypilot » Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:40 pm

I'm keeping out of this one, but just thought I might add that recently one of my family members was in a simular accident- bus ploughed straight into our car at an intersection when it wasn't the bus drivers right of way, then tried to pin the blame on the car driver but ended up admitting their fault and paying for the damages... not that this is a derogatory generalization, just an example of experience related to the topic

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by Alex » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:00 pm

Ultimately a driver with 20 years experience is going to be better equipped to deal with a situation that one with nearly 2.5 (me! ). I'd feel pretty irate if someone did this to me, but the forum is probably not the best place to vent anger, go to a gym and pump some iron or something.

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by Kelburn » Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:08 pm

By the way, you might want to tone down the argument. Bus drivers aren't always in the right neither are car drivers nor pilots for that matter.

How about the Guy who got killed after being hit by a bus in Lambton Quay? Sure he was j-walking and didn't look but the bass was going over the legal speed limit in Lambton Quay (which is either 30 or 40km/hr can't remember).

Bus drivers usually have great skills when it comes to driving (e.g. they drive past me all the time coming within a foot of the car and don't hit it) but anyone can be in the wrong.

For example just cause a lady has been driving a car probably longer than I've been living doesn't mean that when I start to cross the road and she suddenly turns onto that road, only indicating as she starts turning, means that I am in the wrong. Just because she's been alive longer than me and most probably driving for longer than I have been walking (she looked in her 40's).

P.S. this actually happened and has happened many times.

Again tone down the argument this isn't a place for heated arguments.

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by HardCorePawn » Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:51 am

Methinks it is time for a nice big cup of chill out...

Debate = Cool... Personal Attacks = Not Cool...

*CLOSED*

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[ardypilot]

Lets see where shall we start!

1, Facts of the incident are only what young VAC has said. So thats up to the insurance company to decide considering the other driver will have a differant view on things. Secondly we are also going on limited information about what supposed to have happened.

Now lets start shall we! You make some claims which I may or may not dispute however you will also note the differance in how a Passenger Licence is obtained in this country. One thing we may or may not have in common.

Claim Number one

QUOTE

The company pays the costs of the license and the P endorsement, and the medical check only legally has to be done when something needs renewing, about every 5 years. Any more than that is an internal company matter.[/quote]

Not correct! I paid for the P endorsement and pay for the renewal each year, As I am a free agent. I am not a full time Bus Driver. Something that any person may do so if they want to earn money for pay or reward. Regards the medical I will conceed thats every 5 years.

QUOTE

I think you'll find most of us don't regard that as a big deal, if you want to drive a bus being able to drive a car should be a given - especially as you must have held a full drivers license for at least 2 years before you can apply for the P endorsement.[/quote]

Thats quite amusing, one of the things that you will note in comparison to Europe New Zealand is quite slow on that Driving a car equates to driving a Bus.

Now a class 2 licence is required on any Bus with a GLW of over 4500 tonnes which in the main is a Bus seating more than 12 passengers. Those Welligton buses are certainly Class 2 vehicles. Now when your talking Coaches you are also talking Class 4 Licences! Yet another test.

Shock and horror I have class 1, 2 and 4 and yes I drive Trucks as well and I have a Passenger endorsement I use on those days I fancy a change of scenery. Maybe my standards for driving are much higher than yours, well I hope they are considering I occasionally get to drive a Fire Appliance and probably because I paid the hard bucks for my licence and keep it impecable.
The thing that I do enjoy about driving a bus is that your passengers are in the main so grateful and happy with the service, but what annoys me is those that moan and complain about everything. I also laugh at the stupidity I see on the roads and the attitude of our wonderful car driving ferternity who think they can drive.

Judging by your response I would say you have little knowledge of Bus Driving other than what was given to you by an employer, and I can assume your aware of the requirements in Europe and how invalid our NZ licences are over there?
But ultimately this is about VACs little tangle with another road user that he claims his not his fault once again, despite his bragging on here on several occassions of how fast he can drive etc. I just hope that I dont here of a tangle between him and a Bus where people get hurt.

BAT22

 

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[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (BAT22 @ Apr 9 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got a very bad problem young man! I dont care who your dad is but you drive a car which is way beyond your abilities and how old are you? Then you have the nerve to be critical of Bus Drivers. Well let me enlighten you about Bus Drivers.

1, They pay $100 per year to maintain that licence and have to undergo medical check to maintain that licence endorsement.

2, They have to pass a Car Licence Test again to get that licence Endorsement.

3, They hold a Class 2 or Higher Licence which they have to pass a test to get.

4, They undergo Police vetting to obtain a licence.

Most of them/correction all of them have more driving experiance than you, so back off Bus Drivers because you had a unfortuante prang with one which more than likely was your fault.

Your attitude no wonder you not met a good Bus Driver.

I'm actually sick and tired of people like you. Were you there? No. Did you see it? No. I have photos. And where the hell does my dad come into this?

JUST BECAUSE I AM YOUNGER DOES NOT MEAN IT WAS MY FAULT.

If he went through all these tests, why was he stupid enough to come round a BLIND CORNER, MUCH TOO FAST TO EVER BE ABLE TO STOP, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.

That Skoda is not beyond my abilities, I've been taught by a racing driver who was very successful. I'm good enough at driving to know when it's appropriate and when it's not to go fast. Considering I was going about 20km/h, and was STOPPED by the time the bus hit me, with my mum and sister in the car with me, I don't think I was in the wrong matey.

I bet if you were driving in a car and it understeered you wouldn't even know what to do, so lay off, I'm actually a good driver.

My attitude is fully justified. It was clearly his fault, so if I was you I wouldn't embaress yourself by trying to defend someone who did something stupid.

[Peppermint]

QUOTE (BAT22 @ Apr 9 2008, 10:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You got a very bad problem young man! I dont care who your dad is but you drive a car which is way beyond your abilities and how old are you? Then you have the nerve to be critical of Bus Drivers. Well let me enlighten you about Bus Drivers.

1, They pay $100 per year to maintain that licence and have to undergo medical check to maintain that licence endorsement.

2, They have to pass a Car Licence Test again to get that licence Endorsement.

3, They hold a Class 2 or Higher Licence which they have to pass a test to get.

4, They undergo Police vetting to obtain a licence.

Most of them/correction all of them have more driving experiance than you, so back off Bus Drivers because you had a unfortuante prang with one which more than likely was your fault.

Your attitude no wonder you not met a good Bus Driver.

Oh shut up. I'm so damn sick of people blaming us younger drivers for causing accidents, yes many of them are bad drivers and do cause a lot of accidents, but many of them are very well WAY better at driving than a lot of the critics out there. If people are going to sit back, and lay the blame on younger drivers, how are they going to improve? They worry that they're not doing things right, and have an accident. They're not to fully blame, they're pressured into thinking they're wrong.

So tell me one thing, if young drivers are 'so bad, don't have the experience etc etc' why are so many young drivers these days going into professional racing? Don't judge the whole population of under 25 year olds driving abilities, based on a few bad accidents made public and blown way out of proportion by the media, or by the few that intentionally cause the trouble.

Yes I agree that some bus drivers will have more experience than a lot of people, but too many of them don't. In the last 5 years I've only seen ONE bus driver actually WAIT before pulling out of a bus stop, every other one has just pulled out, no indicator, forced a lot of people to go OVER the center line or slammed their breaks on to avoid the bus. If it's a rule or law that buses have the right of way, it needs changing, it's stupid.

[BAT22]

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Apr 10 2008, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I bet if you were driving in a car and it understeered you wouldn't even know what to do, so lay off, I'm actually a good driver.

I wonder if you bother to read? Yes I would know wht to do if my car understeered actually I would know what to do if anything understeered car, bus or Truck. But then I am classed as an advanced driver not because of my licences but because of my experiance and yep you dont drive a Fire Appliance unless your capable of driving one with discipline.

Call me a dick head, or anything else you want, and that applies to any other young driver who wants to spout off it was a age thing. Not true I see idiots of all ages on the road and get to pick them up in many ways. You have been driving how long? Nothing to do with age its experiance and yes I used to think I was invincible once and now I like to see safety.

So keep your head cool, you have your opinion I have mine.

[victor_alpha_charlie]

But your 'opinion' is completely unjustified. Ok, I've only been driving 8 years, but in that time I've driven cars, trucks, and even (GASP!) a bus, and have learned off other people, whether it's my dad, my instructor, or the idiot that just pulled out in front of me, what to do and what not to do.

I'm not saying I won't keep learning or become a better driver, just that (hard as it is for nearly all old people to believe) I'm not actually a bad driver now.

[BAT22]

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Apr 10 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But your 'opinion' is completely unjustified. Ok, I've only been driving 8 years, but in that time I've driven cars, trucks, and even (GASP!) a bus, and have learned off other people, whether it's my dad, my instructor, or the idiot that just pulled out in front of me, what to do and what not to do.

I'm not saying I won't keep learning or become a better driver, just that (hard as it is for nearly all old people to believe) I'm not actually a bad driver now.

Your 16 years of age yet claim to have been driving for 8 years? Sorry my boy that dont count until you have a Full Licence or legally allowed to drive with other motorists on the road.

The fact is you slagged off Bus Drivers in general based on your view and bold claims of experiance. I hope I never read your name on an accident report.

When your insurance company decides whose at fault come back to us in the meantime I am finished arguing with you and will be awaiting your report. With a smile or my face and apology if needed.

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (BAT22 @ Apr 10 2008, 03:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your 16 years of age yet claim to have been driving for 8 years? Sorry my boy that dont count until you have a Full Licence or legally allowed to drive with other motorists on the road.

The fact is you slagged off Bus Drivers in general based on your view and bold claims of experiance. I hope I never read your name on an accident report.

When your insurance company decides whose at fault come back to us in the meantime I am finished arguing with you and will be awaiting your report. With a smile or my face and apology if needed.

Will do, shouldn't be too long until it comes back showing he was fully at fault.
Seeing as I don't have a full licence, does that mean I have negative 6 months of experience?

[ardypilot]

I'm keeping out of this one, but just thought I might add that recently one of my family members was in a simular accident- bus ploughed straight into our car at an intersection when it wasn't the bus drivers right of way, then tried to pin the blame on the car driver but ended up admitting their fault and paying for the damages... not that this is a derogatory generalization, just an example of experience related to the topic

[Alex]

Ultimately a driver with 20 years experience is going to be better equipped to deal with a situation that one with nearly 2.5 (me! ). I'd feel pretty irate if someone did this to me, but the forum is probably not the best place to vent anger, go to a gym and pump some iron or something.

Alex

[Kelburn]

By the way, you might want to tone down the argument. Bus drivers aren't always in the right neither are car drivers nor pilots for that matter.

How about the Guy who got killed after being hit by a bus in Lambton Quay? Sure he was j-walking and didn't look but the bass was going over the legal speed limit in Lambton Quay (which is either 30 or 40km/hr can't remember).

Bus drivers usually have great skills when it comes to driving (e.g. they drive past me all the time coming within a foot of the car and don't hit it) but anyone can be in the wrong.

For example just cause a lady has been driving a car probably longer than I've been living doesn't mean that when I start to cross the road and she suddenly turns onto that road, only indicating as she starts turning, means that I am in the wrong. Just because she's been alive longer than me and most probably driving for longer than I have been walking (she looked in her 40's).

P.S. this actually happened and has happened many times.

Again tone down the argument this isn't a place for heated arguments.

[HardCorePawn]

Methinks it is time for a nice big cup of chill out...

Debate = Cool... Personal Attacks = Not Cool...

*CLOSED*