I have a dream...

[Christian]

Ok, I'll stop abusing this famous speech, but this one has been lying on my heart for a while.

Every time I move to a new version of FS there is the dread of trying to find and reinstall all the great freeware airports available for FS - besides also trying to find out on how to overcome incompatibility issues. Then, some of the airports get 'lost' or stop working and so on. Another thing that isn't very efficient is that one designer does some cool thing in their airport which would also be great to have in some other airport, and there is a lot of duplication work as well. Enough said, wouldn't it be great to have a solution?

What I'm thinking is a massive freeware project (similar to VOZ, I guess, but I did have this idea before VOZ) where scenery designers in NZ unite. Imagine, all of NZ freeware airports in one download - one install and you're set! Maybe even throw in AI and airspace and other scenery related things. And all airports ported over to the latest FS version. Plus, objects and cool scenery design methods could be shared. Doesn't all of this sound great?

The main reason I never chased this up is because I simply don't have the time to be the project manager of such a project. Over the Christmas break I thought to myself that this really shouldn't stand in the way of such a project, surely we'll find someone who is going to take manager responsibilities. I'd be available as supporting roles as the 'big' visonary, giving guidance, motivator and trouble fixer, but also get my hands dirty as scenery designer and sharing scenery design methods.

There are several issues and quite a few bridges to cross, but right now I'm interested in a show of hands - who agrees that the one installer to rule them all would be a great thing to have and who's willing throw in their weight and support this thing? Before questions about free/payware crop up, I don't have a solution as yet, but had some thoughts about a dual free/payware license maybe in the FS Open Components framework. Before I go into too many details let me say this: a) no ones work will be sold without consent, b) the whole team will decide on how this is licensed, and c) there never may be a payware option, the only reason I would include this option is to leave it open to payware developers to contribute (imagine Robin Corn would donate some of his stuff and then couldn't sell his own creations). Before this project starts all these details will be nutted out, well thought through, and every single team member will have to agree to the terms so we get 100% consent from everyone.

Ok, I stop here. As I wrote, let's forget about all the if, when, what's and have a show of hand as to who wants to support this project. Charl, Lawrie, Timmo, Ian, Robin, and all others?

[Jimmy]

Its certainly something I have thought would be great. If you can manage such a large project whilst maintaining the level of quality seen in certain individule releases then it would be well worth any effort put in to making it happen.

I can't be of much assistance, but I fully support such a project.

Thanks
James

[gokanru]

Great idea Christian.When it comes to painting aircraft or doing scenery I'm hopeless,Heck I've been trying to find the scenery files in FSX and and haven't succeeded yet,I had an idea that if I could then maybe I could recolour them for all seasons.However if a beta tester is required then I would gladly put my hand up,thats for sure.

[creator2003]

Ive been working on the updates to FSX of raglan/hamilton city /hamz2008 airport and now they all show up in FSX sweet ,id be happy to add them in and do what i can to help build the one time download +updates now and again

[towerguy]

I have no skills as a painter developer or builder
it does however seem like a worth while project - having seen the quality and scope of VOZ.
if I can be of assistance even if it is just running errands or researching info - or just making the coffee - then yes
count me in

cheers

[ardypilot]

Sound like a fantastic idea Christian, a large scale freeware project would certainly generate massive interest for NZ simming world wide!

[Charl]

Filled with New Year's Resolution eh, Christian?
It's a grand vision, and an admirable one.
It's also a huge undertaking, even though NZ isn't that large a place.
I'd say 6-8 months in the making, perhaps.

In my view, it's too late to expend that amount of energy on the present version of Flight Simulator, which is more than halfway through its product life (I trust).

But you guys who have good access to MS may want to test the waters early in the lifecycle of FS11.
It's a tiny whisper I hear at this stage, but the odds are on a completely new engine for the sim, which could see it through maybe half a dozen iterations.
I'd certainly put some time into an effort like that.

And at the outset, the participants would have to commit irretrievably to the standards and principles of the project.
That may well be the hardest part.

[Naki]

QUOTE (towerguy @ Jan 3 2008, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no skills as a painter developer or builder
it does however seem like a worth while project - having seen the quality and scope of VOZ.
if I can be of assistance even if it is just running errands or researching info - or just making the coffee - then yes
count me in

cheers

Ditto

[Christian]

Ok, let's get this baby on the way then.

@creator
I'm well aware of your great creations, would be great to have you on board.

@Charl
Not quite a New Years resolution, but close. This is what happens when I take a week off actively working with FS stuff, I get ideas
I wasn't really thinking about FSnext, but rather get something going for FS9 and FSX. It doesn't have to be perfect, it's going to be a snowball that'll grow bigger and bigger. I think the beauty of this project is that anything is better than the current state of having to organise thousands of files manually.

@towerguy & Naki
Always great to get nicely brewed coffee. Seriously though, a project of this scale has lot's of tasks including a whole bunch of management tasks (like organising files, setting schedules, keeping scenery designers happy (ie herding cats), make announcements etc. I think it would be great to have a few non-scenery people on board!

Ok, how do we best get started? Andrew, I suggest you create a new forum. Maybe we should run a few polls, ie should the forum be public or non-public, or what do we call the project.

Cheers,
Christian

[ranm]

If not too late, I will be happy to join the team. Like Towerguy and Naki, I have no programming/FS development experience, however am happy to assist with anything else, herding cats included.

So count me in if you like.

Ran

[greaneyr]

Christian

Not really sure how I missed this one. Ah well, better late than never.

Count me in!!! Then after that, count me in again.

I'm not too sure what I'd like to do to help this. I think I could have a couple of different roles, one at lower level getting my hands dirty designing stuff, and one at a higher level hovering above the whole thing in a particular aspect I'm passionate about: Standardisation.

Richard

[toprob]

I certainly don't think that FSX is past its prime, after all it took 3 years to produce (previous versions were on a 2 yearly cycle) and I suspect that this would be the minimum wait before we could expect FSXI. In fact I would put money on it being released 3 years from now...
And one thing which can give you a real head start, no matter what MS decide to do in the future: if you keep ALL your source files, you will normally have most of the work done as far as future compatibility is concerned.
I'd be happy to do what I can, but time is a problem for me. I could, however, once everyone can agree on what you wish to achieve, provide tutorials to standardise the development a little.

[Charl]

QUOTE (toprob @ Jan 6 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... if you keep ALL your source files, you will normally have most of the work done as far as future compatibility is concerned...

There oughtta be a LAW that says keep your source material, photos, whatever, so the next generation of addon developers can benefit even if you aren't interested next time round!

[toprob]

QUOTE (Charl @ Jan 6 2008, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There oughtta be a LAW that says keep your source material, photos, whatever, so the next generation of addon developers can benefit even if you aren't interested next time round!

Ok, Charl has nominated our first LAW, and I second it...
Maybe source files could be archived online somewhere.

[Charl]

The second LAW says:
Once you have contributed material, it is common property, and you solemnly undertake not to be a pain in the ass about it in the future.
This is a biggie.

[Alex]

QUOTE (Christian @ Jan 6 2008, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, how do we best get started? Andrew, I suggest you create a new forum. Maybe we should run a few polls, ie should the forum be public or non-public, or what do we call the project.

I've started things moving regarding this (forum, private/public etc), and will get back to you about it shortly.

Alex

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Charl @ Jan 6 2008, 10:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The second LAW says:
Once you have contributed material, it is common property, and you solemnly undertake not to be a pain in the ass about it in the future.
This is a biggie.

This is a really good point. I also think it's important to record, for each scenery developer, a date of last contact; the time when the project team last heard from them. Maybe have a rule that states that any developer we haven't heard from in the last X months/years is considered to have abandoned 'employment' as it were, and someone else may take over their work.

Robin: You've given me an idea about something I could do. If we're going to have a 'tutorials' section, I might have a go at writing a 'common pitfalls' guide for AFCAD developers. Maybe compile a list of good data sources for making them, and some of the simple but effective things people can do to make sure they are mimicking the actual airport as closely as possible.

[Snowman]

Dunno how i missed this one............................
Christian, yes,.......... i would be in for this,........... if my meagre and simple skills are worth adding to the project.
Currently only having FS9 (sold my FSX), limits me obviously to FS9 stuff........................

Lawrie.

[Christian]

ok, not much time for waffling, I put a few posts into the new forum, so please continue discussion there. If you want to be involved and don't have access drop a line here on how you'd like to contribute and I'll have a chat to the forum moderators

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Christian @ Jan 7 2008, 06:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok, not much time for waffling, I put a few posts into the new forum, so please continue discussion there. If you want to be involved and don't have access drop a line here on how you'd like to contribute and I'll have a chat to the forum moderators

Hi Christian
Where would we go about finding said forum?

Regards
Richard