Run!!!!

[chopper_nut]

But still some ATC people make mistakes.

As do some pilots

[chopper_nut]

I object to everyone saying it was a balls up by ATC, it was probably a good idea to put the 172 first, remembering that the 172, doesn't need to use full length, the 747 will, also the taxi speeds wont vary too much, and having the 172 take off first, means that no aircraft will have to be sittting on the ground due to wake turbulence....

Also, that photo could be quite deceiving Its taken with quite a big telephoto lense which tends to bring the background in closer than it really is. As a side note, I experienced jet blast off a 733 that was taking off infront of us in a C172 as we were flying the approach. Very interesting experience.

[scon]

amazing how even you "wanna be" pilots automatically assume its "cr@p planning" by ATC - how about the Dumbass cessna pilot that took the wrong taxiway or the poor cessna pilot that got a brake lockup or something -Oh NOOOO its cr@p planning by ATC - I can't wait until I have you sitting in the controllers seat and I am your instructor - then we will see what real stress and sweat is! you pilots see your own aeroplane and maybe one or two others and hear one or two frequencies - try sitting in a control room or tower some time listening to multiple radios running dozens of aircraft on split frequencies all saying "we can make number one" usually while we are short staffed, the weather is cr@p , half the taxiways are blocked off, management wants you to move double the number of aircraft while putting more restrictions on what you can and cannot say or do - all the time trying to get you all in and out as quickly and easily as possible with as little hassle as we can. Do it day in and day out for year after year and what will you get - "cr@p planning by ATC" but make one questionable move and it's 'oh yeah ATC ballsed it up-again!" well next time you fly and I recognise the voice you had better be holding 210% route fuel and Island holding reserve and don't forget to double check that route MSA and the 25nm min alt - you never know I might make a cr@p decision - involving a bl@@dy great hill!

Deep breaths

[towerguy]

To all

I apologise if I was out of line and flew off the handle
we are copping some flak from various directions at the moment and this may have been one extra that broke the camels back so to speak. It seems that as we get close to a pay negotiation we suddenly become underworked money grabbing primadonnas that could be replaced by a suitably trained monkey with the right machine. its only the rest of the time that we keep a shakey ATC system running at all using cobbled equipment dubiously managed - us and the techs who do a bloody fantastic job!

again I apologise for flying off the handle.
Towerguy.

[Brennanx]

Nah it was cool it shows never say anything bad to an ATC person because they might right a page of writing telling you about how your going to die in a firey death.

[chopper_nut]

underworked money grabbing primadonnas that could be replaced by a suitably trained monkey with the right machine.

Haha, sounds a bit like my workplace at times! I know some of the controllers here at NZWN so I hear some of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

[Draconian]

So day rise de minimum wage today

[Jimmy]

sorry about that towerguy, I just saw a lighty put infront of a heavy, espeicly if it wasn't a taxi way parralel to the rwy I thought it woudl have been atc who did that, seeing they direct the traffic but of course it is quite likely the pilots mistake.. Sorry twrguy, no offence at you mate

James

[Charl]

Matter of interest, how are priorities decided?
I've sat in a 747 idling at the hold short for what seemed like ages, and then eventually this little 10-seater thing flies in and lands, then taxies halfway down the runway before turning off.
Sure you don't want littlies flying into wake turbulence, but think of the cost of holding up a Jumbo?
Are all aircraft treated as equal?

[ardypilot]

Sure you don't want littlies flying into wake turbulence, but think of the cost of holding up a Jumbo?

On another note, I read a book once (true story) about a Cessna flying out of Seattle that was hit by turbulence from a 747, shaking it so violently that the pilot was knocked out cold, as was the passenger. When the passenger came too a few minutes later, he realised he could not see as he was blinded by blood on this face (or something), and ATC managed to talk him through an emergency landing after he made a mayday call!

Also, in another simular story- my mates Dad in England (who now controls London Gatwick tower) once talked a kid through landing a Cessna in Wales when the pilot had a heart attack and died during a flight.

So big kudos to ATC, we wouldn't be flying without 'em!

[towerguy]

there is always a whole bigger picture out there than can be seen from a cockpit or even a tower cab etc. for example yes you are sitting at the hold in your 747 for what seems like a while but then the A340 that took off ahead is still climbing out at 140kt groundspeed and can't turn north till through 3000ft due noise restrictions and although maybe we could line you up ready to go it would be tight and maybe risk a go round for the 10-seater on final which happens to be an ambulance flight,and is the weather above or below circling minima for his category and if he is forced to go around you would end up waiting even further while he clears the departure path and the 767 on final behind him is now at 3 mile final with a 747 on the runway that can't go anywhere and there is a lighty in the missed approach area for him as well, all this while the Notam refering to "reduced capacity" that we are seeing more and more often really means that either the tower or radar is operating short staffed and may have 1 controller covering two positions. might sound fanciful but his is just an actual example of situations we see over and over every day. On one particularly bad day with wx on mins and traffic backed up all over the countryand the phone going constantly I had to explain to a 747 SKIPPER that his delay was caused by having to take time out to explain to every damned pilot what the delay was- look out the bloody window! Yes I am more than willing to admit when I have stuffed up - it's all taped anyway- but sometimes when you see and hear what is going on out there you just can't help but hang your head and shake it in dispair!
Is it any wonder that I haven't been up for real in so long.

one final example - very recently a pilot of a heavy flying a particularly low approach to the displaced threshold 23L rang to complain that the Papis needed calibrating because they all showed red! - Duh!? and that is the honest to goodness truth!

[HardCorePawn]

one final example - very recently a pilot of a heavy flying a particularly low approach to the displaced threshold 23L rang to complain that the Papis needed calibrating because they all showed red! - Duh!? and that is the honest to goodness truth!

ahahahahahahahaahahah thats hilarious...

until the next time i'm sitting in the cabin and i remember that this guy could be in the little room at the front

[Charl]

It's all a bit like hearing surgeons' tales over the dinner table - you're not sure you really want to hear this, but it's too fascinating to leave

So how about a rundown of who does what, and when, to keep those birds out of each other's slipsteam, and from tripping over each other's taxiway?

[towerguy]

okay charl that sounds like a good idea - it may take a month or so (or more) to put it all together as I am also trying to fit in a trip around the world at the same time as actually going to work and talk to these aeroplanes - an overall summary of ATC as it's supposed to be and what it's really like.

[ZK-KAG]

Personally I think some people have jumped to conclusions about that photo.... Who says that the Cessna is stopped or cant taxi just as fast or even faster than the heavy... I wouldnt want to be in the Cessna behind the jumbo.

And TG I have seen first hand the problems with "reduced capacity", as the staff in Palmy tower are always stretched, even more so now as 2 are moving to CH to do radar... Having been up a few times now, they are really really busy when the commercials come in and out along with two other training organisations circuiting bug-smashers...

~ZK-KAG~

[scon]

Ahhhh the joys of flying out of Ardmore

everyone screaming down 118.1 at each other as the Ardmore Flying School guys try to replicate top gun and break the 250kt speed restriction in there 172's

[Charl]

okay charl that sounds like a good idea - it may take a month or so (or more) to put it all together as I am also trying to fit in a trip around the world at the same time as actually going to work and talk to these aeroplanes - an overall summary of ATC as it's supposed to be and what it's really like.

Actually thought I was pushing my luck there
But if you can find the time, it'd be a splendid insight for everyone, remember there are lots of budding pilots here too.
Really looking forward to that one, thanks TG.

[kiwiflyboy]

Ahhhh the joys of flying out of Ardmore

everyone screaming down 118.1 at each other as the Ardmore Flying School guys try to replicate top gun and break the 250kt speed restriction in there 172's

Lord only knows how many times, i have selected flap in the downwind and slowed down to accommodate for other aircraft in the circuit.... I think you will find the majority of AFS people (who actually continue past a PPL) are very decent people.

[scon]

Ahhhh the joys of flying out of Ardmore 

everyone screaming down 118.1 at each other as the Ardmore Flying School guys try to replicate top gun and break the 250kt speed restriction in there 172's 

Lord only knows how many times, i have selected flap in the downwind and slowed down to accommodate for other aircraft in the circuit.... I think you will find the majority of AFS people (who actually continue past a PPL) are very decent people.

I have nothing against them, but many a time have I extended downwind for a AFS guy only to find out that when I turn final 2 of his buddies have jumped onto final behind him, a problem for me as my Grumman has a faster approach speed would it have been to much to ask if they had just considered airmanship.

[kiwiflyboy]

Grumman............. faster approach speed? what is you approach speed?