The Soviets are invading!

[Ian Warren]

Thanx Hugh , I'm pleased you enjoy the scenery , diffinetly would not have 'been' without a long lost David Williamson , and to have you use for ya s/shot background hope he see's this post one day

QUOTE (Naki @ Nov 2 2007, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What model Mig-17 is that, Hugh? Reminds me that there was a civilian Mig-15 based in Dunedin for a while.

Basicly a 15 , the 17 add another meter to fuselage length , sweep increase on wing tail surfaces to 60deg.s , put a early type afterburn adds further 1,100 lb off thrust - WHAMO ! a Mig17 'FRESCO'
Funny ... when ya see a 15 fly past ... look,hear scratch ya head .... were is the threat ! could see why a Sea Fury shot one down in Korea WHOOPS
Actually still waiting to see FlyingKiwi and ChopperNut with a head to head ... 15 versus FURY .

[Ian Warren]

CHARL ! Brilliant Showcase .. MIRAGE , My fav version the F1

QUOTE (Charl @ Nov 3 2007, 12:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice shiny Starfighter Ian, great cockpit shot - I have the Cloud 9 demo somewhere, will upload for comparison
Ladies and gentlemen"¦
The MiG killer

My first encounter , WIGRAM .. RAAF Mirage 1985 ...WOW ! ... impressed me
A Mig/Sukhoi/Tupolev
I guess research required to find how many other s fell to MIRAGE

My last encounter with Mirage was 1988 , pitted against the next generation ..

Ilm looking forward to the Cloud9 reply

[Naki]

Back to the Swinging 70s - the recently retired F-14 TOMCAT.
Made famous by Mr Cruise and Top Gun.

The US Navy's equivalent to the F-15 & Mig-25. Designed to replace the F-4 Phantom after the Navy rejected the F-111 US Navy fighter version (way too big).

Shot down a couple of Sukhois over Libya in the 80's and participated in Gulf Wars 1 & 2, Nato action in Yugoslavia and in the Iraq- Iran war with Iranian Air Force Tomcats. Yep the US wasn't pleased when the Shah got over thrown and they had at the time very advanced Tomcats which they could (and probably did) give the Soviets a copy or two.

The Phoenix missle system was suppose to be very advanced but in reality was not that effective - the Sparrow & Sidewinder ended up been the main armanment.

Early marks were powered by TF-30s (same as the F-111) but lacked a little in outright grunt so later marks were powered by engines similar to those in the F-15.

This is one fighter I wish I had seen in action. Sadly not to be (unless i go to Iran ).

Iranian F-14



Heres some shots of the Grumman F-14A Tomcat taking off and landing on the USS Tauranga
Evaluation Squadron F-14




Early F-14 markings

[Ian Warren]

HELLS PAUL !.. Straight to the BIGGEST CAT

QUOTE (Naki @ Nov 3 2007, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Back to the Swinging 70s - the recently retired F-14 TOMCAT.
Made famous by Top Gun.

The Turkey , mmmm Tom Cruise , no no .. the F14 its nickname , what Tom Cruz the turkey , no Cruise missile , , Phoenix missle system never had a chance , past the era , had it preceded time - but that is COLD WAR ! .... idea of the entire program i guess .

Time to watch the Movie again ... keep up with Diplomatic relations yes Goose we have to break your neck again ... Mav no , yes Goose Mav ..... Damm that s 200 and Twice ..... I want some BUTT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHklGtW3rwU

[Charl]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Oct 29 2007, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My first encounter , WIGRAM .. RAAF Mirage 1985 ...WOW ! ... impressed me
My last encounter with Mirage was 1988 , pitted against the next generation ..

Just to finish the thought - my recollection of the MIII was this airshow guy coming in on the deck, you didn't hear a thing until he had passed, pulled 6g and gone vertical.
Many thought it was supersonic, although very strictly not permitted. Every car alarm at the place went off!
Then he was patched through on the P/A, conversationally reading off:
"28,000 feet...29,000 feet...30,000 feet"
Highly immersive stuff, and Paul, you are dead right, that is a very sexy aeroplane.
Good of you to bring the Tomcat in on the USS Tauranga, lends a whole new dimension to the term "Carrier Island"!
Two shots you didn't include, so here they are:

the moody Return to Carrier at Dusk
and the BOOM!

Ian: Tarantino and Top Gun!
Cue Uma Thurman...must...kill...Iceman, oh my (takes off flying helmet and shakes out blonde tresses] oh my, he's...a girl
You're right, must dig it out again, I've forgotten one of the lines!
Trivia: One of the only movies ever to use all the footage shot.
They were going to do TGII and there was no A-A action left over to use.

[hasegawa]

I dislike the F-14 and think, it was not a great thing from heros to kill 2 overloaden, obsolete and not well maintained around 10 years old Suchois of the first export-batch. No match for them and to much propaganda. Nothing to make heros from them.

[ardypilot]

QUOTE

and the BOOM![/quote]
Wow, is that a real effect included for when you break the sound barrier?!?

If so, what Tomcat is that? 'cos I want it

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (hasegawa @ Nov 3 2007, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dislike the F-14 and think, it was not a great thing from heros to kill 2 overloaden, obsolete and not well maintained around 10 years old Suchois of the first export-batch. No match for them and to much propaganda. Nothing to make heros from them.

Gulf of sidra incident , August 19 1981 , why send 2 SU22's with pilots limited in skill and attack was based to very similar use ( tactic ) of a lot of Mig21s during Vietnam having the ground controller command telling then when to fire , knowledge with no headon acquistion of use with the atol missile seems to make people believe the missile will go runaway , fact missile pointed and fired is enough reason to return fire and still possible to score a hit minor hit . The worst thing for the pilots of Libya , they repeat themselves , recall Mig23's and again same result , possible date 1983 .
Off course the Tomcat is a fav with me .. the begining to movie TOPGUN , see the aircraft stress on landing in slow motion , it s the shape .. power , Phoenix - the never had a chance missile because it was never design'ed for schurmish police action but a TOTAL war LUCKY .

[Charl]

QUOTE (Trolly @ Oct 30 2007, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, is that a real effect included for when you break the sound barrier?!?
If so, what Tomcat is that? 'cos I want it

Trolly, these and other effects were uploaded over a period of time for the F-14, I think by Rob Barendrecht.
There are also cat and trap bits available, probably not in one place, you'll have to trawl the sites.
You may get lucky with one of the last uploads which I noticed was heading for 100MB.
Tomcatting is addictive, and will take you out of circulation for some months, be warned.
Start with Savern Reweti's still excellent Waikato carrier, moored in the Hauraki gulf:

Bottom pic is also a standard-fare F14 shot.
Someone remind me, there was an issue with the Phoenix, they never carried 4 (Max landing weight?)

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Charl @ Nov 4 2007, 06:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bottom pic is also a standard-fare F14 shot.
Someone remind me, there was an issue with the Phoenix, they never carried 4 (Max landing weight?)

The F14 a 6 Phoenix carrier , but idea for full completment off 6 was in all out WAR (1975-1980 era but more mid 60's thinking ) , could easliy return with all , but very seldom would u see a 2/4 combo Phoenix , 1983-84 , Lebannon was the change with Rule of combat in area .. so loaded unless test or photo shoot due to shear expense and political climate . I think the AIM-54 was carried in the Sidra incident were showed the Sidewinder and Sparrow were devolped enough to do the job .

[Naki]

QUOTE (Charl @ Oct 30 2007, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and the BOOM!

Nice shots Charl

Hah I thought I wasn't going fast enough - I'll have to find that effect (and eventually get the carrier going). Thanks for the HU.

Andrew it is the IRIS F-14 - rather nice.

Yep the F-14 did at times carry 6 Phoenix

[Charl]

Lines crossed - I remember now it normally never carried the full complement of 6 AIM-54's because they were so heavy it severely curtailed loiter time (Fuel trade-off)
So Sidewinder plus Sparrow and later AMRAAM were carried outboard and proved to be as good for policing actions.
Five kills (including an own goal on a USAF F4) is not terribly illustrious for a 30-year miltary career - shows what the movies can do for you!

Other FS models are from Dino Cattaneo and Jeff Dobbing

[ardypilot]

QUOTE

Trolly, these and other effects were uploaded over a period of time for the F-14, I think by Rob Barendrecht.[/quote]
I'll have to have a look for those, and try and add them to my new Sukhoi SU-15T 'Flagon-A':



Developed to replace the Su-11 'Fishpot-C' interceptor during the 1960s, the Sukhoi Su-15 first appeared as a scaled-up version of the Su-9/Su-11 family but powered by two engines and utilizing twin side inlets. These design changes freed up space in the new solid nose for a large radar, and powerful engines were installed to insure the Su-15 would fly considerably faster than any known Western aircraft of the time.

The first production 'Flagon-A' models featured a mid-mounted cropped delta wing, swept tailsurfaces, and a large bubble canopy placed well behind the conical nose.

Later models introduced a "kinked-delta" wing planform of greater span and a more aerodynamic nose. In addition, the electronics, engines, and armaments were continually upgraded so that the Su-15 remained a formidable high-speed interceptor through the 1980s. By 1976, 29 PVO interceptor regiments were equipped with the 'Flagon', 18 Units flying the delta winged Su-15, and a further 11 units flew the SU-15TM 'Flagon-F'.

The most noticable/ infamous event the aircraft was involved in occurred in 1983 when an Su-15TM 'Flagon-F' shot down a Korean Air Lines Boeing 747 mistaking it for a reconnaissance Boeing RC-135 aircraft. About 700 Su-15s still remained in service by the mid-1980s, but these were gradually retired and replaced by the MiG-31 'Foxhound' and Su-27 'Flanker' by about 1993.

su-15a.zip (on avsim)

Last edited by ardypilot on Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Ian Warren]

Well ! TOMCAT was the late 70 into 80s mid with TOPGUN , 90's the Gulf ... mid 90's Recon ( TARPS) ... to its end early/mid 2000 century ... IT WAS THE BEST - meanest 'CAT'

Good show by all , Thanx Paul .. wonder if IRIS are looking at a FSX model 14 .... ( not the loadstar) & Charl for rundown on the free downloads . and to Hasegawa for input and fueling ideas and knowledge off the old eastern block Cold War backbone .

Sway back to the old country of carriers , original angle flight decks and at some angles .. 50s / 60s Fleet Air Arm a early 'Harrier' ..... NAH ( FAA)
Supermarine Scimitar ..........
nothing special old black panel ..
as smokey as a F4 .. .. ....
in its own way
it looks great ...... ..... ... ..
Whats needed is ....... .....
A FSX Carrier .... .. ..........
So in memory of the aircrafts war record IE: Tomcat , SCIMITAR did not have one .. Alphasim FS9/FSX model so be looking forward to try carrier landings in
FSX Accelerator ...............

QUOTE (Trolly @ Nov 4 2007, 09:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Developed to replace the Su-11 'Fishpot-C' interceptor during the 1960s, the Sukhoi Su-15 first appeared as a scaled-up version of the Su-9/Su-11 family but powered by two engines and utilizing twin side inlets. These design changes freed up space in the new solid nose for a large radar, and powerful engines were installed to insure the Su-15 would fly considerably faster than any known Western aircraft of the time.

The first production 'Flagon-A' models featured a mid-mounted cropped delta wing, swept tailsurfaces, and a large bubble canopy placed well behind the conical nose.

Later models introduced a "kinked-delta" wing planform of greater span and a more aerodynamic nose. In addition, the electronics, engines, and armaments were continually upgraded so that the Su-15 remained a formidable high-speed interceptor through the 1980s. By 1976, 29 PVO interceptor regiments were equipped with the 'Flagon', 18 Units flying the delta winged Su-15, and a further 11 units flew the SU-15TM 'Flagon-F'.

The most noticable/ infamous event the aircraft was involved in occurred in 1983 when an Su-15TM 'Flagon-F' shot down a Korean Air Lines Boeing 747 mistaking it for a reconnaissance Boeing RC-135 aircraft. About 700 Su-15s still remained in service by the mid-1980s, but these were gradually retired and replaced by the MiG-31 'Foxhound' and Su-27 'Flanker' by about 1993.

su-15a.zip (on avsim)

ANDREW .. Wicked , and good detailed History

[Charl]

QUOTE (Trolly @ Oct 30 2007, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll have to have a look for those, and try and add them to my new Sukhoi SU-15T 'Flagon-A':
su-15a.zip (on avsim)

Very nice montage Andrew!
A true Cold Warrior, you gave an excellent account of it.
Effects man is Barendregt, they are mostly XML gauges so should work.

[Charl]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Oct 30 2007, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sway back to the old country of carriers , original angle flight decks and at some angles .. 50s / 60s Fleet Air Arm a early 'Harrier' ..... NAH ( FAA)
Supermarine Scimitar ..........
as smokey as a F4 .. .. ....
in its own way
it looks great ...... ..... ... ..
Whats needed is ....... .....
A FSX Carrier .... .. ..........
So in memory of the aircrafts war record IE: Tomcat , SCIMITAR did not have one .. Alphasim FS9/FSX model so be looking forward to try carrier landings in
FSX Accelerator ...............

Superb Ian, what a great diversity of minds here, left field, right field...
beautiful shots of a great-looking aeroplane.
Good luck with the Accel Scimitar, dam MS Hornet just ends up in the drink.

[Ian Warren]

Charl , this thread moves so quik ! going to Drive NAKI nuts .. whole world gone to war in MINUTES Trolly , Lock and Load ..... 'NAH' Its not a race , Im very impressed with the knowledge we all share , all have to offer I'm really enjoying it , ... with Hasegawa , Hugh , Hayden , I guess Chopper-Nut and Kiwifly may be planing , a Korean Dogfight or maybe not .. this is the COLD WAR thread ... Don't tell anybody what ya doing if they are doing anything at all . ... Real COLD WAR WORRIORS , thats O for WORRY is 'Florian_S' or maybe 'ThrottleUp' but the scary is SUBS17 he knows this stuff , even more scary The CREATOR2003 ... nah he's ok cooking 'SCON's in the Nuclear oven ... or should I ... could be code

[FlyingKiwi]

I love this thread. Obviously there's a very serious side to all these aircraft, but I really like the social side of it too; what humans are capable of designing to overcome their adversaries, who in turn design something new, and the cycle continues.

[Charl]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Oct 29 2007, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

MIRAGE , My fav version the F1

Very well, then:

Son of The MiG killer: Mirage F1

Saw action in South America, Southern Africa, and Middle East.

Thank you Wiki for the picture.



Still distinctively Dassault, pencil-slim side view, shock cone intakes.
But no delta wing, and moved to the shoulder.
This resulted in instantly recognizable knuckled landing gear.
It was quicker, more manoevrable, and had better payload/range than the Mirage III.
Plenty of war tales, just jump over to Wiki and read about how the Iraqis F1's played tag with the Iranian F-14's.
Then in Desert Storm, crossed over to roost in former enemy territory!
Very Cold War, always CIA in the background stoking the fires, always a Soviet advisor on the opposing side.
These however, are Spanish:



Kirk Olsson has made the definitive model for FS.
It is absolutely gorgeous (and freeware!)


http://www.simtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=edf1eb4e6e52a37ea7bcHere's a Movie Clip, check out the gear animation



In Angola, this aircraft met its nemesis, the MiG 23, of which more later.

[Naki]

Wow another nice series Charl - yep I reckon all Dassault fighters Mirage 111 onwards are very nice looking. The F-1 was certainly a good export seller for Dassault which the Mirage 2000 did not really match - and they have yet to export any Rafales - just as well the French now have a big shareholding in Airbus & Eurocopter to keep the aerospace exports going for them.

Must download Kirk's F-1 and give it go.