Slip landing the Christen Eagle II

[ardypilot]

When landing a taildragger from the rear seat view, the nose rises up on finals and you have to put your aircraft into a side slip to make a visual approach.

I do this a lot, particularly in the Christen Eagle II, but always find myself landing on the very right hand side of the runway. I usually approach the runway from the right hand side, with full right rudder and my ailerons banking left, and then once I am over the threshold, I line up and try to use the view of the Virtual Cockpit (75% zoom) to my left and right to judge my distance from the centreline.



Am I using the correct technique to land- I remember doing this as a PAX in real life in a Pitts Special but can't replicate it in FS very well. Can anyone give me some tips?

[Charl]

Ever tried leaning over the side of the cockpit for touchdown?
<Ctrl-Shft-Enter>

[G-HEVN]

Certainly it's a common technique for Moth pilots. I don't know about the Christen Eagle, but very few FS aircraft are capable of sideslipping properly.

[ZK-Brock]

Yeah sieslipping doesn't really work in FS, just makes you less stable I reckon.

[Jimmy]

ahh landing tail draggers I can count the number of times Iv done it sucsesfully, always have the problem of tip forward on to my nose

Yes try the ctrl shift enter as charl said, although to sopme extent that could become realistic, unless of course the real pilots stand as the are landng!

so why is the "slide slip"" done? improved vis? lol anyway good luck with figuring it out andrew

[ZK-Brock]

James

Side slips are where you try to lose excess height by reducing lift. When you bank the wings on your aeroplane, you are converting some of your vertical lift (that makes you go up) into horizontal lift (turns you). This means that your vertical component of lift (VCL) is less, so you go down quicker in a descent. The problem with that is, you have a higher horizontal component of lift (HCL), so you turn (not useful on finals). You can lose some VCL without increasing HCL, though, by sideslipping.

In a sideslip you bank your wings slowly to one side and at the same time use opposite rudder to stay on your desired flightpath. The more you bank your wings and counteract the bank with rudder, the quicker you'll go down. This is a good technique for getting down quicker without increasing airspeed.

**EDIT**Oh and it can also increase vis, as Andrew is doing here methinks.

[kiwiflyboy]

Aircraft like the pitts special, do not have flap, one way to land is by using the back of the drag curve, but this here would give them no vis of the runway..... this is having a really high nose attitude, and literally, sinking, side slipping is great fun....... I always do it in a 172 for fun........ it gives you a good visual of the runway and can give you a nice rate of sink when too high......

[ZK-Brock]

I'll ask to try some sideslips when I go flying tomorrow (forced landings!)

[hinch]

i flew warick carter's tiger moth for a short while then jumped in the eagle - it's not too hard after that, the moth is a great trainer!

sideslipping in fs is super hard it's true, in the eagle more so. i always try and get into the slip a fair way out and hold it steady, gripping my joystick tightly so i don't move or changle the angle...probably not the best way...actually, i have no tips on this issue! i'm rubbish at landing that thing!

[kiwiflyboy]

I'll ask to try some sideslips when I go flying tomorrow (forced landings!)

Sideslipping can be very usefull for FLWOP's...... there is also s turns and skidding out of the turn onto final (all used for loosing height)

[ZK-Brock]

Cool - might try some on finals to a nice sealed runway first though!

[G-HEVN]

Some planes -- Cessnas in particular -- are not certified for slipping (either forward or side) with large amounts of flap deployed. ( a forward slip changes the aircraft heading while maintaining its track, ie the nose swings, whereas a side slip maintains the heading but changes the aircraft's track, ie the nose stays pointing forwards, but the plane moves sideways). Forward slips are great for losing height and seeing over the nose for a sideways landing, as per this discussion (and also the Air Canada 767 "Gimli Glider" used a forward slip on approach), and side slips are great for crosswind landings as you can still fly "straight" along the extended centre line.

Aerodynamically of course, they are identical. The plane is flying sideways in an uncoordinated manner (slip ball is not centred, pink gin is spilled...), which will cause it to lose energy (ie height) rather rapidly. http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/snaps.html is a rather good discussion of the principles and practicalities.

[ZK-Brock]

Hmm ok HEVN. I'm no longer flying a Cessna but if a Cessna can't sideslip with flaps down then I doubt my little Tecnam can! ( bitchn tiny thing)

[kiwiflyboy]

With regards to Cessna's slipping with flap, some are ok for it, other state not to. The reason is because of the high wing low tail, it can aerodynamically blankey the tail, reducing rudder and elevator effectiveness, but at the end of the day, a small slip that will bring you on profile for a paddock you are forced to land in or into something a lot less forgiving (think croc infested swamp also with man eating piranha's), I'd rather run the risk of blanketing the tail and loosing some control effectiveness than dying a horrible and painful death from carnivorous water creatures

[ZK-Brock]

Haha very true Kiwiflyboy. In the end I forgot about sideslipping, but I will post a flight report in the real-world aviation section

[towerguy]

another method only for use in dire straights when you've got too high and are trying to avoid the croc infested swamps and you cannot sideslip or go around..........

poke the nose forward a bit and lift a notch of flap count to 10 ie 1.., 2.. ,..3 oh s**t... 8,9,10 and put the flap back down. garanteed to lose about 150ft in a C152

not recommended by insurance agents or flying instructors as a regular habit.

[ZK-Brock]

Ah yes, my instructor actually showed me this...of course she didn't recommend it but at least I know it's there should submerged beasts bear their teeth on finals

[towerguy]

you can also use the reverse...

if too low approaching the fence drop another notch or even full flap (if you still have it in hand) as most (caution- not all!) types will want to balloon upward. Normally you will check forward to counteract and trim but in his situation just take the ride up but be aware that nothing is for free - you will come down again but hopefully past the fence.

aviation truism - better to hit the far fence going slow than the near fence going fast ( but better not to hit the fence at all!)

[kiwiflyboy]

there is also the method if you've gotten slightly low and are going to miss your paddock by 30 or so feet, I like to call in penetration, you drop the nose forward to build up as much speed as possible, then level off, the excess speed will carry you a surprising distance in ground effect

[hinch]

Hmm ok HEVN. I'm no longer flying a Cessna but if a Cessna can't sideslip with flaps down then I doubt my little Tecnam can! ( bitchn tiny thing)

according to pilot magazine they can! low wings help i think.

*i don't actually fly, i nicked it from a friend who does