True Kiwi Virtual Airline

[ZK-LGD]

Howdy ZK-MAT,

I [Snip!] essentially see the existence and successfulness of a VA not to rely on what country it's operated from, more so on who runs it and what spirit the community has.

And here I could not agree with you more. Currently I am not involved with any VA; however, those I have been involved with in the past (Tradewinds Caribbean and Admiralty Air Service) have had a great sense of community and excellent leadership.

Whilst scratching around seeing how other VAs operated, I chanced upon BCE (Business Class Express) which summed up a successful VA's recipe for survival:

"BCe success will be measured by it's attentiveness to it's members. Even if there is only a hand full of members, they will have a lot of fun. If you want a great program, you have to be a great leader. So lead now."

Bickering over technicalities gets Simming nowhere.

Bickering, no. But open discussion/discourse has helped (at least) me to consolidate and clarify certain issues and determine which direction I will eventually take.

[Blackmagic]

Gidday

When I started this post I was struggling with a conscience of decision of which you already know from our msn conversations.

Pretty much what Dorian said summoned up my decision and the Troll that appeared was the a crucial factor. Basically I witdrew any permissions Kiwi Air had to use repaints I designed but yet they continue to use a logo I adapted for them.

No one is disputing that there are a lot of good VAs out there but like I pointed out only one that has a strong Kiwi Foundation. Virtual or not it feels like there is little pride in our countries achievements. To busy letting others do it for us and letting outside opinions divide us.

I have a great deal of respect for certain people in the New Zealand Flightsim Community and more so if we can all work together at something. Is that a dream? I dont think so Vista Oz united Australia so why cant we rival that achievement on a smaller scale? and I dont mean just scenery I refer to the community.

Two things NZ needs is a Strong rendition of its National Airline and just as strong fictional airline to feel that gap, that can only be achieved by people working for that common goal who know what they are talking about.

If we did not want a certain amount of realism why would we spend hundreds on addons like FSPassengers be attracted to proggys we could earn virtual Dollars! Design Sceneries for realism or design better plane models?

Thats another Topic and my question for myself has been answered and my decision and direction influenced. How come Dorian always comes across with the words of wisdom?

[Planetmike]

Hello,

My name is Mike Walters and I am the founder/CEO of Kiwi Air.

I have resisted commenting until now but as people seem intent on destroying what I have put the past two years of my spare time into I feel I must defend myself.

I am NOT a Kiwi. I was born and bred in the UK just like Colin. I have not yet made it to NZ permanently, my wife has a phone interview next week and then we begin the Visa process. I am medically qualified and therefore on the NZ skills shortage list so obtaining a visa is not a problem. However, also like Colin my heart has been in New Zealand since I travelled the country extensively in 2001 - why do you think I chose to base a VA there? This is my way of still being there and keeping my enthusiasm alive till I get back.

Right then, to my accusations...

1, www.mike-the-wanderer.co.uk was the website originally intended - and used - to show off my photos of New Zealand when I got home. It was never intended as a permanent home for Kiwi Air. It took time but we are now at www.flykiwi.net, an androgenous address specially for the VA - please do keep up!

2, At his request, all Colin's repaints and pictures of such were removed from the site and replaced. The logo? Please don't tell me you invented the idea of a silver fern on a black background?! All original Kiwi Air repaints had that tail fin and I painted them - therefore you adapted MY idea (which wasn't even original!)

3, The Alliance with Atlantic Aviation - yes we all have choices to make and I made mine. Kiwi Air is a FICTIONAL VA and as such is graced with the luxury of making moves that do not have to reflect real-world operations. Despite the fact the ANZ is a memeber of the Star Alliance in the real world so I am hardly setting a precedent. I am not going to be drawn into an argument about this that cannot be resolved as I don't think any of us are actually in charge of any real-world airlines!

4, Low-level, GA, VFR flying - Kiwi Air has always had many 'flightseeing' routes and has encouraged online flying. We now even have our own 'flying club' to complement the heavy routes. This has never been particularly succesful despite the fact that everyone says it's what they want!

Finally, on this thread there has been comments by people, particularly one person, who have been members of Kiwi Air for over a year and have never filed a flight. So why choose now to flame my work if you have never even tried it?

I got into this 'game' because I love flying and I love New Zealand. It upsets me deeply then that a small group of people seem to be intent on destroying things for everyone.

I expect I will be banned from this forum shortly although you will notice that I have only defended myself and not 'flamed' anyone.

Regards
Mike Walters
CEO
Kiwi Air
www.flykiwi.net

PS - On the subject of starting a VA in another country - I always thought Noble Air was based in New Zealand as well.

[Zenith]

Interesting replies (goes gets some more popcorn )

Mike Walters and I am the founder/CEO of Kiwi Air.

Thats a bold qoute.

The logo? Please don't tell me you invented the idea of a silver fern on a black background?! All original Kiwi Air repaints had that tail fin and I painted them - therefore you adapted MY idea (which wasn't even original!)

Even more interesting as I have a earlier repaint of a Kiwi Air Scenic Twin Otter sporting the traditional Silver Fern Black Tailfin. Not the styled logo you are now using, how did you come up with that idea?

As for adapting a idea your livery was is very much like the livery of Aotearoa VA which can be found on Flightsim.com. Now I ask myself are you Mike Walters, Mike Adams or Mike Davis?

Before your last website overall in March last year you called your VA Kiwi Air Scenic. Now its just Kiwi Air which brings me back to your first brag.

Copyright and Trademarks risk game if not played right especially when the company your VA Alliance is with happens to be based on a big American Airline that may take a dim view of this matter like they have a habit of doing

Sits down again takes out another packet of popcorn as another Troll appears

Cheers

[Planetmike]

Well Colin (Greg, Black Magic, Zenith),

You know full well I am Mike Walters for a start.

Kiwi Air Scenic became Kiwi Air and Kiwi Air Scenic when we expanded the heavy routes to differentiate between the international and scenic flights. Guess why I didn't call it Kiwi Air International?

I painted the Twin Otter in question and yes the fern was slightly different and yes you probably used a different fern (which I am guessing wasn't your desing in the first place). I think if we want to argue about the copyright to use a silver fern on a black background then we are probably all in trouble.

And I still don't get what a troll is!

M

[Blackmagic]

I wondered how long it would be before you came up with that

2, At his request, all Colin's repaints and pictures of such were removed from the site and replaced. The logo? Please don't tell me you invented the idea of a silver fern on a black background?! All original Kiwi Air repaints had that tail fin and I painted them - therefore you adapted MY idea (which wasn't even original!)

No I am not goin to go thru a load of BULL**** on a Public forum just to make anyone feel good!

You were using the Standard Silverfern Logo until I pointed out to you that the VA looked the same as Aotearoa, I pointed this out to you you shot off emails to Mick Davis and got no responses! So I found you the streamlined Logo that first appeared on the "Tino" repaint.

Like you said your idea was not very original! Mine was at a time when New Zealanders were debating its national flag Heck I have not cleaned out my outlook express files from 2 years ago and can find emails that relate to this piece of our history.

I think if we want to argue about the copyright to use a silver fern on a black background then we are probably all in trouble.

You got that right I am sure you are finding that out by now!

[Blackmagic]

Sits down again takes out another packet of popcorn as another Troll appears

Pass the chips Bro!

[Taupo]

For my tuppence worth - this debate is losing the track.

From the top - some members of the forum basically want the staus quo - i.e mainly G.A flights in a small local VA run by Kiwi's by Kiwi's. Ok that is their individual right to hold that view - and to cherish it dearly too.

Others in the forum - myself included belive that the Kiwi Flight Sim industry like the nation we all love, is best served - by a combined multi-national operation - that brings in new talent, idea and challenges to Kiwi Aviation. Which in real world and virtual terms is part of a international hobby and industry. You may not agree with this viewpoint - but is is equally our right to hold this outlook and to provide such facilities for all who wish to use them.

No amount of looking back, personal insults, bickering, name calling or mud slinging, changes the fact, that agree with it or not, The Endeavour Alliance is now a virtual reality. As Director of Public Relations for AAVA - (and yes we were founded by staff of the real world airline and are proud of our association) - we are equally proud of our partners at Kiwi Air. Together we provide virtual flight experiences from GA across NZ - America, Canada the United Kingdom - through to turbo-props, RJ's and heavy jet aircraft by Melijet - POSKY and the latest payware models too.

If you don't want to fly with us that's fine - it's a personal choice and we respect that. Sadly, some colleagues have said it's not for them - and departed - that's life too. Others have welcomed the new challenge and joined us - and we welcome them - for in truth - they are the future and the future of flight sim operations not just in NZ but world wide.

As I've said before - we're at a crossroads - the choice is simple evolve - or stand still. The Endeavour allaince is simply a process of evolution - with the best of two cultures operating in partnership. Both kiwi and AAVa still operate the same services and choices as they did on April 30, 2006 - all that is happened is that both V.A's have added more choice, experience and challenges for our pilots - should they choose to undertake them.

If you want to fly outwith a VA - no difficulties with that - I personally believe you will lose out - but it is a matter of personal belief and choice that we all have the freedom to make.

Lastly, there is nothing wrong in being proud of a nation - whether you were born there, or like so many, it has become your adopted home. I'm proud of my association with the Taupo area and with the Manawatu area. But in the end Oscar Wilde was actually right! And the viewpoint has nothing to do with flight sim.

[Pieman]

So what does make a true Kiwi VA?

Seems the point of this post has been steered off course by a personnal vendetta evading the question.

For myself the question has been answered and I agree with most points its the strength of commitment of a few that would know understand and enjoy what New zealand has to offer. Afterall Flight Sim was made for the American Market and Oceania was left out of the mould in the boxed version! It has taken the talant of New Zealanders and Australians to shape what we have today and Australia was lagging behind before that giant leap they call VOZ

Planetmike and Taupo (who I note was banned) have both come in here on the offensive against Black Magic who I notice stepped back from his involvement in the VA that earning its publicity for all the wrong reasons.

I did consider joining Kiwi Air untill I saw this bickering and then found out that you can not post in there Forums yet they can come on here blasting off? Personally I dont give a bulls testicles of the Wannabe Airline managers. who you find pushing there VAs in every thread they see someone ask about Virtual Airlines.

I am sick and tired of reading "Come and join ****** VA" in answer to every question. What I would like is a VA in MY area I want to fly looked after by people with a knowledge and enjoy the locality. Not Wannabe 13 year old tycoons!

Enough said.