Best "Classic" Airliner for FSX (Freeware or Payware)?

Discuss aircraft addons and repaints for Flight Simulator here

Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:41 am

Hi everyone,

I am very excited to have a new system and running FSX with the level of details and performance I wanted. So I am looking to only add highest quality add-ons to it.
I am keeping the list of my aircraft short but getting the most realistic ones ( I'm not GA fan in FS , Only jetliners and Commuters )

I equipped myself with PMDG 737NGX and waiting for the release of Airbus X Extended or FSlabs A320 series. I have also got PMDG JS41 for a turboprop.
Now I am looking for a "classic" airliner ( Not CS 737 ) . Obviously CS 727 and 707 are some of my options but I wanted to know your opinions on those and other available FSX native with highest quality ( visual and simulation ) out there. I will pay for a good quality product if it exists.

So please feel free to comment and suggest what comes to your mind from experience smile.gif

Thanks a lot
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Postby Ian Warren » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:12 am

I have all the above , one that i and probably most would highly recommend is the 727 its systems are very much 737 and 707 just simply in between both , good short field and good long range .
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Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:21 am

Thanks Ian, just to be sure the CS 727 for FSX is the pro version right? Because I saw someone having the fsx version and graphics was very poor ( compared to CS 757 ) not sure if that was a genuine copy or not, just wanted to be sure before buy it from CS smile.gif

thanks
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Postby Ian Warren » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:27 am

The 757 is not really a classic , but if you want to go to the 80s generation , maybe the LevelD 767 is the better choice in this area , modelling, systems and sound package for that one is superb .
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Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:31 am

Sorry I meant to compare the graphics of CS 757 with the 727 for fsx. I would want a classic, Is it possible to send me screenshot of your CS 727 VC and exterior?

I still have LD 767 on old machine with fs2004 and its brilliant.
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Postby SeanTK » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:40 am

Have you tried the Project Tupolev "Tupolev Tu-154B-2" for FSX?

Link to file directory:
http://files.protu-154.net/pt-154b2_fsx.html

Main website:
http://www.protu-154.net/index_e.html

Support forum section for FSX version:
http://www.protu-154.net/forum/viewforum.p...7dfd7e6d48caf5c


It is a systems simulation of the real aircraft, and a later variant (Tu-154M, not yet for FSX) has been used as a training device for real pilots of the aircraft.
Last edited by SeanTK on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:49 am

I actually downloaded that and tried it, I have issues with the VC, everytime i face forward it shows the 2D panel , I uninstalled and re-installed but the same thing, which is a big shame as I was a frequent flier with their 154M on fs9.

Not sure what is the issue related to. Not having the problem with other A/Cs.

and just on a totally different note ( Pardon my pardon! ) is there a worthy free AI traffic for NZ and Aussie ? As I will be flying mainly around NZ and to few OZ airports.

Thanks
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Postby TonyM » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:59 am

Bennz,


Cs727 is my favorite classic tubie.

Used to often fly jump seat Perth- Melbourne v.v. when I
worked at Ansett Australia.

Heres a VC shot plus an exterior one, taken at YBTL at sunset.





Cheers

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Postby SeanTK » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:02 am

Try clearing everything out and downloading the latest release. Please note that when you do load the aircraft up in the sim for the first flight of the day, it will show the 2D panel on the screen. This is to properly initialize the systems. When you see this, right click and select the "show VC" option...



You say that you were a frequent Tu-154M flier in the FS9 days, so I'm sure you're already familiar with many of the systems of the B-2 version. The flight manual has stayed the same since FS9.

Let me know if you give this one another chance and if you are having any difficulty, either technically or with the aircraft operation. I've been flying the Tu-154 series since about 2004/5.

bennz wrote:
QUOTE (bennz @ Aug 20 2012,6:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I actually downloaded that and tried it, I have issues with the VC, everytime i face forward it shows the 2D panel , I uninstalled and re-installed but the same thing, which is a big shame as I was a frequent flier with their 154M on fs9.

Not sure what is the issue related to. Not having the problem with other A/Cs.

and just on a totally different note ( Pardon my pardon! ) is there a worthy free AI traffic for NZ and Aussie ? As I will be flying mainly around NZ and to few OZ airports.

Thanks
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Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:16 am

Thanks Sean, I will give it another try , its too good to be ignored. I believe the systems are same as the FS9 version !? or is there any improvement over the fs9 version of B2? I didn't fly much with B2 , mainly focused on M variant , but nothing stops to learn the differences again.

When I installed it, I realized there was no uninstaller for it. Was not very impressed as I don't like manual clean up of aeroplane in FSX. Is that normal or something was wrong with my installer package? I am downloading it again and try it later on today smile.gif

And thanks Tony for the beautiful screenshots, I might get the CS 727 or if I get the TU-154 working I will get the 707 from them!
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Postby SeanTK » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:32 am

bennz wrote:
QUOTE (bennz @ Aug 20 2012,7:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks Sean, I will give it another try , its too good to be ignored. I believe the systems are same as the FS9 version !? or is there any improvement over the fs9 version of B2? I didn't fly much with B2 , mainly focused on M variant , but nothing stops to learn the differences again.

When I installed it, I realized there was no uninstaller for it. Was not very impressed as I don't like manual clean up of aeroplane in FSX. Is that normal or something was wrong with my installer package? I am downloading it again and try it later on today smile.gif

And thanks Tony for the beautiful screenshots, I might get the CS 727 or if I get the TU-154 working I will get the 707 from them!


Regarding the systems:
Exactly the same from what I can remember from my FS2004 years when considering the 2D pop-ups and VC of the basic 1970's era plane. See notes below.

Since you were focused on the M, the B2 may actually be easier for you since the pressurization system isn't simulated. Basically, everything except pressurization and fire suppression.
While both 154 models were systems simulations, the M for FS2004 was the one that the real Tupolev company used to train it's pilots (though that may partially be because the B-2 was obsolete by then anyway).


A few things to keep in mind. The FSX Tu-154B-2 is still in continual development. You will need to use the 2D overhead panel popup to operate the overhead panel effectively..mainly for radios. (All other areas of the aircraft should work in the VC).
Between the 2D pop-ups and the VC, everything is fully functional and flyable, with the exception of needing the 2D popup for the overhead and a few very minor hydraulic pressure gauges that seem to be inop behind the yoke on the main vc panel.

I personally use a few 2D pop-ups for things just because it's easier in general when using this aircraft, but just wanted you to know that while you can nearly operate this from the VC alone...not quite, and it's easier to use pop-ups for some stuff anyway.
The cool thing though, is that everything, including the gauges, are in 3D!

A major note.....PT has included a 1990's version of the cockpit! This version has a built in digital INS system that can be coupled to the autopilot, as well as space for a GPS (Garmin 430 or KLN 90 series fits...not able to couple to AP....GPS is reference only, just like in real life for the B-2 version). Also has a digital TCAS transponder and the glass VSI. Unfortunately the TCAS system/transponder is inop at this time and requires digging through the pop-ups in the "Alt" menu to find the old analogue transponder.

I put the KLN 90 from the Aerosoft Catalina in the slot for the GPS and it blends in and works wonderfully. Again, as in real life, the B-2 cannot couple the autopilot to the GPS.


Regarding the installer. I did not see an uninstaller either. You'll find PT files in your main FSX folder, as well as a PT folder in the main Gauges folder, and the Tu-154 aircraft folder itself in the Simobjects/Airplanes folder.


If you have further questions, let me know. There are certainly a few niggles when looking at the FS9 vs. FSX version, but it can still be enjoyable and rewarding once you know how to handle them.


EDIT: PLEASE let me know if/when you need help. I can also post images if you want just to show you how my 90's cockpit looks, and any images showing how to access certain features that may not be obvious.
Forgot to mention, you can get to various stations in the VC by pressing the "A" keyboard button.


EDIT 2: The '90s panel/VC by default is actually blue rather than green. You can change that with some cfg edits though, since 90s green version is included in the package but not activated.
Probably will see a few more edits here as I remember things! smile.gif
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Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:51 am

Fantastic response Sean, Much appreciate the comprehensive description and details of the plane.
I would certainly be interested to have a look at your 90's cockpit setup as well as any tweaks or modifications you might have for this aircraft. But I am hoping to manage to sort out the issue with VC first, as it was quite annoying.

So if the pressurisation system is not simulated, then I guess there is no need to be worried about having problems with doors not getting open due to pressure difference and few other consequences which we have in the M version on fs9?

How are the flying characteristics? The reason I was purely using M was the fact that many mentioned the flying of M was more realistic than B2 . And the added simulated systems of course, specially the effect of the weather on engines and their behaviour.

Cheers
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Postby Ian Warren » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:58 am

You can't have found a better description of the 727 than Tony,s screen , that really is superb cool.gif
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Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:13 pm

Yes I agree Ian, very beautiful shots. If I don't manage to run the TU154 properly it would be my choice!

So far the little JS41 proven to be a hard work biggrin.gif Too much realism in simulation of geared truboprop. Who would have thought that? tongue.gif
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Postby Ian Warren » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:23 pm

You will find the Tupolev a lot of fun course Sean will walk you though start-ups and procedure if you run into problems , not regulars in the NZ but they still poke there noses in sometimes , the Captain Sim 727 was one of my early payware dated back to early FS2002 and my first purchase from the Justflight group , Thought this months screen shot competition , The Captain is the prize giver so maybe it time to whined up your screen shot skills to win the 727 idea.gif
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Postby SeanTK » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:27 pm

bennz wrote:
QUOTE (bennz @ Aug 20 2012,7:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Fantastic response Sean, Much appreciate the comprehensive description and details of the plane.
I would certainly be interested to have a look at your 90's cockpit setup as well as any tweaks or modifications you might have for this aircraft. But I am hoping to manage to sort out the issue with VC first, as it was quite annoying.

So if the pressurisation system is not simulated, then I guess there is no need to be worried about having problems with doors not getting open due to pressure difference and few other consequences which we have in the M version on fs9?

How are the flying characteristics? The reason I was purely using M was the fact that many mentioned the flying of M was more realistic than B2 . And the added simulated systems of course, specially the effect of the weather on engines and their behaviour.

Cheers


Luckily that VC issue should be a pretty quick "fix" since it just involves right clicking. You'll need to do it each time you start a fresh flight, but it just takes a second. A consequence of extremely complex gauge initialization...

I'll post a '90s cockpit shot within the next couple of hours.

Correct on the fact that there really isn't' much in the way of environmental consequences in the B-2. You still need to obviously watch the complex systems, but it's not quite as involved as the M. (though still many orders of magnitude more than people are used to!)

It's been so long since I've used the M that I forgot about those neat environmental features. It was particularly nice having the brake efficiency go down in poor weather.
I actually think FSX itself takes this into effect somewhat now....so do watch your landings on wet runways, because to me they do seem to be a bit longer...but it could be my imagination.

The flying characteristics seem excellent to me and just like old times. As with the M, the B-2 uses that same infamous "joystick utility" that measures hardware control forces within the addon aircraft itself, and requires "disabling" your controls in the main FSX program, either through the menu system before a flight, or you can assign a key press (mine is Shift+K), and programming your controls through the joystick utilty when the aircraft is loaded. The ability of this addon to use it's own joystick system allows for more realistic control and a better simulated feeling of an aircraft this size.
I have a config set for a Saitek Pro Flight system with one yoke, one three-lever throttle quadrant, and the Saitek rudder pedals if you have the same hardware.


As far as "the numbers" go when flying. Everything still seems to be as good as it was, particularly since the latest update when some overpower issues on the ground were addressed (that was annoying for a while...the parking brake was ineffective when the engines were running, and you needed zero thrust input to get moving pretty quickly on the ground.....it's been fixed.)

The ship still requires around 82% on the throttles with full flaps on final...all of the speeds seem to be accurate in all regimes of flight, etc. Basically....it's by the book.

Other features off the top of my head:

The external Load Manager program is included so you can load up your aircraft and write the new weights to the aircraft.cfg before flight. It'll also tell you how much fuel to put in based off of trip length in kilometers. (Need to input fuel load within FSX though prior to flight).
Also, NCalc works and can export plans to the navigation assistant so you can use the NVU system, or you can export to the INS. One note: I use Plan-G to create flight plans externally, because NCalc still requires that you use FS2004 format flight plan files. Still exports to the FSX aircraft just fine though.
The navigation assistant works like a charm when you load an NCalc plan, and navigation itself (speaking of the 70's version) is just like you may remember.

The '90s panel is nearly a Tu-154M panel essentially, since it includes the modern navigation allowances.


So, overall....very complex, not quite as complex as the M, but just as complex as pretty much any other classic aircraft that you are considering right now!


EDIT: Also....FS9 era repaints work!!!!!!!!!!!!! (with the addition of an appropriate texture.cfg in the addon texture's folder, and of course adding an entry to the aircraft.cfg)
Last edited by SeanTK on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:27 pm

Oh Tupolev is already fun for me as I have spent a while on it on FS9, loved reading through detailed manuals and see the various simulated systems. And specially as my root goes back to good old Soviet region, I have special bond with this plane smile.gif
I am hoping CS had some improvements and upgrades on the 727 for fx since the 2002 version biggrin.gif
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Postby SeanTK » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:33 pm

Looks like we posted at the same time since I'm writing WAY too much in this thread! Ha!
Just take note of the above, and standby for some cockpit shots. I'll just hop in and get some cold/darks unless you want the systems powered up.

The CS 727 is great in it's own right too! Take a look at that when you don't want to mess with the complexity of the Tu-154!
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Postby Ian Warren » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:36 pm

bennz wrote:
QUOTE (bennz @ Aug 21 2012,1:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I am hoping CS had some improvements and upgrades on the 727 for fx since the 2002 version biggrin.gif

With your new PC , it would not be a problem , people do go on about frames , I have never had a problem , most problems found , many of the people with issues while running ATI and overclocked PC's .
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Postby bennz » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:36 pm

Thanks Sean for your great assistance.
I will certainly follow your guidelines and hopefully set it up just right, then start revising the B2 Manuals, I always wanted to do cockpit sharing with M , but never managed to make it work or find someone who wanted to share a seat with a newbie in there biggrin.gif I am looking forward to the screen shot . cheers

And thanks Ian for your help as well. I remember CS had a demo of this bird ( or the 707 ). I might try to find it and try it myself. I got the bad habit of getting used to PMDG graphics, so I hope it satisfies my visual expectation
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