NZFF

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:06 pm**

I've been thinking about it for a while - in fact for the last 10 years i've wanted to play the drums and now I feel its time. I'm after advice from anybody whos been there - where do I start ? Because of the nature of my work, drum lessons are going to be hard to achieve, so i was thinking about following some online type lessons - like on you tube etc, to slowly build up the basics. I'm not expecting to become John (Bonzo) Bonham overnight but just want to learn slowly and see where it leads.
Obviously any tip on drum kits would be appreciated as well. I'd be looking at a basic set, well priced in the secondhand market - trademe etc.

Then of course there is also dealing with the noise....... and the wife - she'll flip, but heck you only live once and I'm almost 41 !! I can see my son and daughter wanting to have a go to.

cheers

Deane

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:22 pm**

I did two or three lessons learning how to read the music from a book and then writing a couple of notes myself ,after that any cheap 5 piece kit would do really as a learning kit just make sure it comes with a good seat and sweet nuts a bolts the skins can be replaced anytime ...
so once i got the first 4 beat sussed from my last lesson it was paradiddles and banging away learning new beats from listening to songs etc ..i upgraded my kit a couple of times over the years as i knew it was something i wanted to carry on with ....

you can just put a pillow or blanket in the base and egg cartons on the walls etc but id say she will say something ..lol
good luck

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:29 pm**

Well I guess I'm as qualified to answer as anyone

(I started lessons when I was 10 or 11 I think and have been playing now for around 15 years. Ive taught a few pupils over the years and played in a few bands)

A few things to start 'thinking' about before you actually start lessons:
1) listen to the music and try and determine what sound relates to what instruments on the kit- probably easier to listen to fairly simple music drumming wise. This will help you play by ear which is a large part of drumming
2) Start tapping in time (if you don't already) and try breaking things down into 1/4s and 1/8s etc (i.e. left hand taps in time four times per bar, right hand two per bar) Drumming (well, at least most rock drumming) is simply dividing bars up into ever smaller pieces 1/2,1/4,1/8,1/16- and then cutting out notes to arrive at a some thing a bit more interesting)

Then when it comes to actually start teaching, it is good to know your gear: What part is called what and what sound it makes. There are things online im sure to help with this

I then usually start by giving the student one hand/part at a time (similar to chopper flying I guess) and play along while they keep time. Then introduce two elements (say hi hat and snare or hihat and bass) and then let them have a go putting it all together. I find it works better to not *think* about the beat too much.....get one thing going (hi hat) set it in your mind and then put it another part of your mind so you can concentrate on the other hand. Do the same with that and then introduce the next part. I personally try to not focus on the numbers (i.e. teaching beats by counts) unless someone struggles with the 'sound' approach.

Most people have a decent 4/4 single kick rock beat going after one lesson.

I would suggest going to at least a few initial lessons because there are things that cant really be taught without contact and feedback- I.e. how to hold the stick, how to hit the drum, how to let the drum breath etc.

Kit wise: A decent second hand kit is a good choice. Stick with a well known brand like Pearl (although I feel they are a bit overpriced for what they offer), Tama, Yamaha etc....although for the most part the first year or so is probably just going to sound like noise anyway haha. If sound is an issue you can get practice rubber pads which sit over the kit and muffle everything. I wouldnt suggest playing with these too much though as you need to get used to the feel of the drums. I would suggest staying away from electronic kits (initially) for the same reason.

Any other questions, fire away!

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:37 pm**

cheers guys - was not expecting replies so soon. I'll try and find out more about basic lessons. Yes Timmo I love to pretend play with anything I can get my hands on (wifes largest knitting needles are great !! The problem is this is nothing like the "feel" of a real kit so I imagine all will go out the window.
I guess the other problem I'll have is how to transport a bloody kit if I buy online !!

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:47 pm**

deaneb wrote:
QUOTE (deaneb @ Dec 16 2008, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I guess the other problem I'll have is how to transport a bloody kit if I buy online !!

Hi Deane you could always put it in you Fletcher's fertilizer hopper

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:48 pm**

I probably can't offer much advice on the matter (I'm Bass and Trombone) but in the School Jazz band many of the members randomly (when we are stuffing around) have a bang on the drums. It's not hard to get a good sound. After a little play I'd assume you'd be able to pick it up and be able to play along to songs etc. You can also get drum tabs. The part that will be hard without lessons is theory and you won't be able to refine your skills or learn special stuff as easily as there won't be a teacher to say what you might be doing wrong and how to improve. Timmo really said it all. Drums is just knowing where to put your sticks in perfect timing. You get used to it quickly.

A side note, what sort of music will you be drumming?

Posted: **Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:05 pm**

Kelburn wrote:
QUOTE (Kelburn @ Dec 16 2008, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A side note, what sort of music will you be drumming?

It will be rock - I'm into the classics - Led Zep, Pink Floyd, Queen etc. Also a big big Talking Heads fan. But that is miles away - something to aspire to.

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:41 am**

I may also be qualified to answer, especially on the kit side. My other biggest hobby (besides aviation) is drums. More so kits themselves and creating custom ones. I think I've had about 7 kits and 12 snares. I recently sold a kit so just have the one in storage at the mo but still have 4 different snares for it !! Unfortunately I haven't actually played for a good 18 months and I taught myself to play about 10 years ago so I'm prob no help on the formal tabs and poncy stuff ya learn at lessons.

The biggest question really is how much do you want to spend on a kit ?
I would strongly advise against getting some new crappy entry level kit. There are some nasty products out there. If you want to spend that little, as timmo said, I would recommend spending the money on a slightly better (perhaps mid range) 2nd hand kit.

With sound, there are the removable rubber style sound off pads, which are good but the feel is too different I think. In the case of quiet playing, I usually use Mesh heads, which have a much better feel and sound but have some drawbacks. Them being that they are a head so you need to replace the normal heads with them. 5 heads can be a pain to take on and off. The snare and the bass ones usually stretch and after time wear out, The bass ones can also rip pretty easily after a period of hammering.
Transport can be a pain. I've sold a few kits in different parts of the country and you usually have to get a freight company to haul them, although it is sometimes easier so have them couriered individually depending on size. I found it easier to just pack them up in the car and deliver (if its not too far).

Generally when buying new stuff, such as cymbals, heads, mute pads etc etc it is (or was) FAR cheaper to buy from the states. I get a lot of gear from http://www.massmusic.net/ and when building kits (which my last 4 have been my own, also built several for others) these guys supply pretty much everything http://www.drummaker.com/
Unfortunately though with the way the US dollar is, it is prob no cheaper, but it sure used to be !!

My baby before I had to put her in storage. Space is the biggest issue for me

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:34 pm**

You could always get an electric one and just plug in the headphones? - Too expensive probably

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:10 pm**

deaneb wrote:
QUOTE (deaneb @ Dec 16 2008, 10:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...
Because of the nature of my work, drum lessons are going to be hard to achieve, so i was thinking about following some online type lessons - like on you tube etc, to slowly build up the basics. I'm not expecting to become John (Bonzo) Bonham overnight but just want to learn slowly and see where it leads.
...

Deane

We should plan a jam session down the track (a loooong way down the track) -- I've taken up the electric guitar this year, but still got a long way to go:)

I haven't been able to afford lessons, but one thing I've discovered is that 15 minutes with someone who knows what they're doing is worth hours and hours of messing around on your own. A teacher is definitely on my wish-list.

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:06 pm**

A185F wrote:
QUOTE (A185F @ Dec 17 2008, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I may also be qualified to answer, especially on the kit side. My other biggest hobby (besides aviation) is drums. More so kits themselves and creating custom ones. I think I've had about 7 kits and 12 snares. I recently sold a kit so just have the one in storage at the mo but still have 4 different snares for it !! Unfortunately I haven't actually played for a good 18 months and I taught myself to play about 10 years ago so I'm prob no help on the formal tabs and poncy stuff ya learn at lessons.

The biggest question really is how much do you want to spend on a kit ?
I would strongly advise against getting some new crappy entry level kit. There are some nasty products out there. If you want to spend that little, as timmo said, I would recommend spending the money on a slightly better (perhaps mid range) 2nd hand kit.

With sound, there are the removable rubber style sound off pads, which are good but the feel is too different I think. In the case of quiet playing, I usually use Mesh heads, which have a much better feel and sound but have some drawbacks. Them being that they are a head so you need to replace the normal heads with them. 5 heads can be a pain to take on and off. The snare and the bass ones usually stretch and after time wear out, The bass ones can also rip pretty easily after a period of hammering.
Transport can be a pain. I've sold a few kits in different parts of the country and you usually have to get a freight company to haul them, although it is sometimes easier so have them couriered individually depending on size. I found it easier to just pack them up in the car and deliver (if its not too far).

Generally when buying new stuff, such as cymbals, heads, mute pads etc etc it is (or was) FAR cheaper to buy from the states. I get a lot of gear from http://www.massmusic.net/ and when building kits (which my last 4 have been my own, also built several for others) these guys supply pretty much everything http://www.drummaker.com/
Unfortunately though with the way the US dollar is, it is prob no cheaper, but it sure used to be !!

Thanks for that info - I'm looking at $500-600 second hand. Yamaha, Tama, Pearl (Forum series & Target Series), pretty much exactly what Timmo had said.
example on trademe
Transport looks like mainfreight or similar will be the way to go. I take it with these brands replacement parts are relatively easy to get if required ?

cheers Deane

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:37 pm**

Right, a word from my perspective.

How's your sense of rhythm? I mean, can you dance? (I don't mean "DO" you dance, I mean can you?). Do you find yourself tapping your foot to a decent beat when you listen to music?

If you answered positively to most of these questions (hey I hate dancing, but I can do it) then you may actually find you can teach yourself just by listening to a few decent tracks with simple beats. I say this because that's exactly how I learned.

I was self-taught at age 11, when my brother and I built our own drum kit out of some old paint tins, sheets of tin, some aluminium sheets and antenna tubing to make the hi-hats, and a few well-chosen ice cream containers as the tom toms. Each piece was hand crafted to try and sound as much like the original as possible. It was no 'kit' and certainly sounded very thin in comparison, but it gave me the co-ordination to carry on. It was quite strange the first time I sat down on a drum kit and nailed it. Like anything, if you do it enough in your head, when you come to do it for real you generally have no problem.

From there, I played solidly through my teens and was very active at high school and beyond. Haven't done much since i finished uni, mostly because if I play in a band with anyone, I would want it to be my brother on Bass and he lives in Wellington, but also the time commitment of practicing, plus the hurdle of keeping all people in the band aiming at the same unified purpose.

If you've got a good sense of rhythm and a good enough ear, you might just find that you can bash out a halfway decent beat after you've had all the components explained to you. Lessons cost money, and drums is obviously something you've been wanting to get into for a while so it's not going to just go away. I'd be inclined to buy the kit first then have a bash and see how you do before thinking about lessons.

I learnt piano for about 5 years and did exams, plus I had a few drum lessons at high school (provided by the school) but I generally found I learnt best when I taught myself. Horses for courses though, of course.

Richard

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:07 pm**

Thanks Richard - can I dance - hmmm not for a long time, but yes I am forever tapping my foot to tunes. When listening to music, I always prefer songs where the drumming is good and strong and I pretend to play along. Do I have rhythm - I don't know, but I'm not afraid to try and put in the hard yards to learn to play. Part of it is just giving me another outlet and a chance to unwind doing something different.

Deane

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:13 pm**

Is this worth $700 ??

5 piece Yamaha Rydeen drum kit
Drums by Remo,
Cymbals by Paiste, Germany
Kit includes:
kick drum 22 "
tom 12"
tom 13"
tom 16"
snare 14"
hi hat stand, crash stand, ride stand, snare stand
kick pedal
hihat cymbal 14"
crash cymbal 16"
ride cymbal 20"
Drummers stool
Sticks plus brushes

Very good condition. Been in storage last 12 months.

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:24 pm**

deaneb wrote:
QUOTE (deaneb @ Dec 17 2008, 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is this worth $700 ??

5 piece Yamaha Rydeen drum kit
Drums by Remo,
Cymbals by Paiste, Germany
Kit includes:
kick drum 22 "
tom 12"
tom 13"
tom 16"
snare 14"
hi hat stand, crash stand, ride stand, snare stand
kick pedal
hihat cymbal 14"
crash cymbal 16"
ride cymbal 20"
Drummers stool
Sticks plus brushes

Very good condition. Been in storage last 12 months.

Maybe, depends on condition. Any pics ? Any idea of the model of the cymbals ?? Paiste do make some rubbish low end stuff but have some ok midrange and some very nice exotic type cymbals.

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:36 pm**

A185F wrote:
QUOTE (A185F @ Dec 17 2008, 09:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe, depends on condition. Any pics ? Any idea of the model of the cymbals ?? Paiste do make some rubbish low end stuff but have some ok midrange and some very nice exotic type cymbals.

trademe link

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:47 pm**

Yea I reckon that would be pretty good for 700, if it looks as tidy as it does in the pic. Definately good for 600...
I would have that over the pearl in the other link you posted. A better buy im sure.

Posted: **Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:49 pm**

QUOTE

We should plan a jam session down the track (a loooong way down the track) -- I've taken up the electric guitar this year, but still got a long way to go:)[/quote]

I've always been thinking of this, but here on NZFF, we should pick a song (well known song) and one person who plays each instrument within that song records themselves playing the song (with headphones on so you can't hear the song

) and then each recording is then put together to create a cover. (I hope you got the gist of that - it does sound confusing)

Also what guitar have you got Robin?

NZFF

Learning to play Drums - advice wanted