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I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 10:35 pm
by Charl
On recent travels I had the chance to visit the Normandy coast, site of the biggest seaborne invasion in history. This year marks the 80th anniversary of D-Day: 6th June 1944.
The landings formed part of Operation Overlord, which marked the beginning of the end of Hitler’s Third Reich.

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Some historians reckon the scale of the operation far exceeds anything ever undertaken on the planet - including the 1960’s Apollo Moonshot. Others point out that it changed humanity on a scale never experienced before or since.
The visit changed my perspective of what happened, 80 years ago.
While our media focus is (understandably) on the beach landings themselves, this was merely the tip of the spear. Overlord’s objective was to land a million and a half men and munitions in western Europe and keep them supplied until the Nazis were defeated.
The logistics to achieve this are staggering.

Change of mind #1: No-one but the United Sates could have put this together.
For example: the failed strike on Dieppe in 1942 showed the difficulty of securing a deepwater port, vital for the unloading of the required materiel. Eisenhower’s response? We’ll bring our own. To that end, they built floating docks, concrete caissons, pontoon bridges and other bits of naval engineering excellence, and towed them over the channel. There they assembled two enormous artificial ports, one at Utah and the other at Sword.

We visited the latter at Arromanches, where there is an excellent museum, and remnants can still be seen of the original structures at sea.

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https://youtu.be/_TVKUDHvzgU

The museum has great models of these astonishing structures

https://youtu.be/PRkxHNLJzU0

https://youtu.be/PoK-bw1nZ1Y

Change of mind #2: Montgomery was frightened of Rommel, and loved having his picture taken.
Although nominally in charge of all ground forces, Montgomery failed in the most pressing objective: to capture Caen and so open the way to the east. The plan (actually, his own, documented plan) was to maintain the momentum of the landings, and quickly thrust inland to achieve this objective. Instead on the day he dithered, and entered into a 42-day attempt at attrition which cost around 38,000 British and Canadian lives. In an attempt to save face, he ordered that Caen be destroyed by bombardment. 600,000 shells were fired, and 2,500 tonnes of bombs were dropped. The Germans had long since departed, and the result was thousands of French civilian deaths, and the destruction of a centuries-old Norman treasure.
Eisenhower meantime got Bradley to mop up Cherbourg in the west, and drive the invasion from there.

No change of mind: Despite the weather almost ruining the landings, despite the stupid self-destructing glider plan which resulted in 50% casualties of the Airborne divisions, despite facing incredible obstacles, the success of the D-Day landings hinged on the individuals who made the impossible, possible.

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Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2024 11:29 pm
by emfrat
Charl, Monty was certainly not the hero he was made out to be...but don't forget PLUTO
https://d-dayrevisited.co.uk/d-day-hist ... ion-pluto/
ATB, Mike

Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 7:31 am
by chopper_nut
Monty was also having to advance through all of the German reinforcements that were being moved into Normandy. The Americans in the West faced virtually no German armour. The British were also blamed by the Americans for not closing the Falaise Pocket for the same reason. General Lawton Collins was slightly less derogatory of Montgomery stating that he had to be more careful because he couldn't afford to take the casualties that the Americans could. The World At War documentary from the 1970s covers this quite well.

Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 8:42 am
by Charl
Excellent series!
I see it is available online, well worth a replay.

emfrat wrote:...but don't forget PLUTO

My word, yes.
I have an interest in the engineering of stuff like this, so went looking
It's astonishing.

We will be inundated with D-Day stuff I imagine, it's kind of the last decade for the surviving participants.
I found this one to be insightful: Omaha Beach, which took massive casualties.

https://youtu.be/xNlsVC70mJQ?si=Up4IRh4zDCM-jJge

Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 12:47 pm
by emfrat
Charl wrote:It's astonishing.


Certainly is, and that very informative article you linked to makes it clear it was even bigger than I thought. :thumbup:

Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2024 6:53 pm
by Splitpin
Superb post Charl, thank you.

Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2024 4:41 pm
by simonh
Great post Charl. I agree with you about Montgomery. His next mistake was Operation Market Garden. He thought that the operation would shorten the war.
It didn't and was a very costly operation.

Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2024 7:47 pm
by Charl
Thank you... yes Arnhem, and 8,000 paratroop casualties. :(
Not to mention the reprisals against Dutch civilians. No more needs saying.

MSFS of course has some D-Day stuff, scenery and C-47 plus towed gliders.

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Those Norman hedgerows...

Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2024 10:15 pm
by Naki
Yes awesome post, very interesting...currently planning a trip in couple years myself in that direction ...Duxford will be on the list

Re: I've Been Away: Some debrief, you will know the History

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:14 am
by chopper_nut
[quote="simonh"]Great post Charl. I agree with you about Montgomery. His next mistake was Operation Market Garden. He thought that the operation would shorten the war.
It didn't and was a very costly operation.[/quote

The Market Garden plan was fine, it was the fact that the 1st Airborne landed on top of an SS Panzer division that just happened to be there. That and the Americans failing to secure Nijmegan so that XXX Corps could roll on through in a timely manner. The real error though was the fact that the Allies didn't attempt to push up through Holland earlier. Horrocks and his Corps were stopped from advancing when they still had 100 miles of petrol for their tanks. They could've pushed through Holland and across the Rhine while the Germans were still in disarray from Normandy. Hindsight is 20/20 of course.