NZFF

hmm yes I see that now - wonder if the black box and the flight data recorder are in one piece?

I think power loss could be ruled out. If it was the crew would have pitched nose down well before the stall. Typical departures from active military areas usually involve a steep climb out so as to avoid off airfield small arms fire. This may or may not have triggered a shift in the cargo. The angle of climb was very steep and the landing gear was still extended. This leads me to believe that the problem occurred very early in the takeoff phase and came as such an unwelcome surprise that the crew didn't even consider raising the gear.

cowpatz wrote:

QUOTE (cowpatz @ May 4 2013,7:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think power loss could be ruled out. If it was the crew would have pitched nose down well before the stall. Typical departures from active military areas usually involve a steep climb out so as to avoid off airfield small arms fire. This may or may not have triggered a shift in the cargo. The angle of climb was very steep and the landing gear was still extended. This leads me to believe that the problem occurred very early in the takeoff phase and came as such an unwelcome surprise that the crew didn't even consider raising the gear.

You're quite right, so I found out the cause of this incident, it's pilot error

On Jun 2nd 2013 accident investigators by the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation of Afghanistan reported in a press conference that quickly shifting cargo, consisting of three armored vehicles and two mine sweepers totalling at 80 tons of weight, caused the accident. The cargo slammed so hard at the back of the aircraft, that parts of the aircraft separated and wiring in the back was severed. As result of the shift and loss of aircraft parts the center of gravity moved so far back, that the attitude of the aircraft could no longer be controlled, the nose of the aircraft rose beyond the flying envelope of the aircraft and the aircraft stalled destroying the aircraft and killing all crew in the resulting impact. Parts of the aircraft, that separated as result of the initial load shift, were recovered from the runway. The straps used to tie down the cargo were recovered from the accident site, although charred they provided evidence of having fractured before final impact, it was unclear however, whether the fracture(s) had happened before or after takeoff.

The FAA had released a Safety Alert for Operators on May 20th 2013 regarding securing heavy vehicles in aircraft, see News: FAA concerned about potential safety impact of carrying and restraining heavy vehicle special cargo loads. http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4

Doesn't sound like pilot error to me,
regards,

AlisterC wrote:

QUOTE (AlisterC @ Jun 8 2013,11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On Jun 2nd 2013 accident investigators by the Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation of Afghanistan reported in a press conference that quickly shifting cargo, consisting of three armored vehicles and two mine sweepers totalling at 80 tons of weight, caused the accident. The cargo slammed so hard at the back of the aircraft, that parts of the aircraft separated and wiring in the back was severed. As result of the shift and loss of aircraft parts the center of gravity moved so far back, that the attitude of the aircraft could no longer be controlled, the nose of the aircraft rose beyond the flying envelope of the aircraft and the aircraft stalled destroying the aircraft and killing all crew in the resulting impact. Parts of the aircraft, that separated as result of the initial load shift, were recovered from the runway. The straps used to tie down the cargo were recovered from the accident site, although charred they provided evidence of having fractured before final impact, it was unclear however, whether the fracture(s) had happened before or after takeoff.

The FAA had released a Safety Alert for Operators on May 20th 2013 regarding securing heavy vehicles in aircraft, see News: FAA concerned about potential safety impact of carrying and restraining heavy vehicle special cargo loads. http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4

Doesn't sound like pilot error to me,
regards,

Nor me Al .

AlisterC wrote:

QUOTE (AlisterC @ Jun 9 2013,12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

although charred they provided evidence of having fractured before final impact, it was unclear however, whether the fracture(s) had happened before or after takeoff.

As previously mentioned the load had become unstable by aircrew before there deaths , finding fractures , now this happened to a Japanese Airline 747 loosing its tail in the 1980s kill all but four on board , in the findings it was found the aircraft was over rotated 7/9 month previous and apparently repaired , the crash investigators found the rear pressure bulkhead was fractured , proof was the cigarette stains off many months on the opposite side of the bulkhead cause a massive structure failure .

For a aircraft to be light to fly and every piece off the structure and design holds each little piece together , mention to some people the skin of an aircraft to some is not that much more thicker than the Coke Can they are hold they simply would not believe you . With this 747 , only takes the miss-management of a load-master or another to bang into something or not used properly and not mention it would cause these sorts of accidents .

zk2704 wrote:

QUOTE (zk2704 @ Jun 8 2013,11:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're quite right, so I found out the cause of this incident, it's pilot error

Interested to know how you 'found out' it was pilot error. Is it true that some of our LAV's were on board?

"Interested to know how you 'found out' it was pilot error" me too , thats a pretty bold statement to make , maybe, best not to post unless you can back it up .
That pilot has friends and family ..... think about it young man.

Pilot error is possible because he had an insecure load, unless it was due to some other failure eg fault strops/chains. Guess we'll have to wait to find out.