NZFF

Now what has happened , an entire week FORGOT .. Stupid me . Hey , appears the entire brain off this country died with the idiots in control off a ship (the don't speaky Lingo types) in control off the ship .. to them a 'boat' (something most use to get out of a country but ) maybe wanted to stay . ?

How is it Maritime sat on there hands knowing exactly what was going to happen - the danger to everything is a laugh .. ha ya same sorta cr@p from the coast , not from the mine if your not educated .. , Got it figured ! the Friggen BALLS game called the WWIII cup

Ian Warren wrote:

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Oct 11 2011,3:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now what has happened , an entire week FORGOT .. Stupid me . Hey , appears the entire brain off this country died with the idiots in control off a ship (the don't speaky Lingo types) in control off the ship .. to them a 'boat' (something most use to get out of a country but ) maybe wanted to stay . ?

How is it Maritime sat on there hands knowing exactly what was going to happen - the danger to everything is a laugh .. ha ya same sorta cr@p from the coast , not from the mine if your not educated .. , Got it figured ! the Friggen BALLS game called the WWIII cup

Yep and we have a PM who tells big porkies in Parliament and then can't explain why he said them next thing he will be saying what ship what Mayday call OOHHHH!!!! that one on the reef off Tauranga yes we are doing stuff all about it and hope it will all go away.

This is whats happening:(yes i agree the initial response MAY of been too slow) but there is a LOT of things happening (and yes its ruined my favourite fishing spot) .BTW there a lot worse things happening in the Bay of Plenty with the PSA disaster which will cost the country $100 millions:

Human resources
Around 200 staff are registered with the Incident Control Centre.
Staff from Maritime New Zealand, National Response Team, regional and local councils, harbourmasters, Department of Conservation, Forest and Bird, Massey University, Waikato University and WWF.
85 National Oiled Wildlife Response Team personnel in 14 teams working on the response and includes veterinarians, expert responders and ornithologists with experience in the capture and treatment of oiled birds.
Technical advice and support from the UK, Australia and Singapore.
10 trained oil responders from Australia.
Representatives from the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) are working in the incident command centre to help coordinate supply of NZDF equipment and personnel to the response. The NZDF also has mobilised 150 personnel to help with a clean-up if that should be required.
The New Zealand Fire Service is coordinating a mobile incident command centre with a decontamination unit for vessels and people, along with waste management.
Future human resourcesRequests for additional human resources being compiled.
National and international offers of assistance and equipment have been received. This is to be expected under reciprocal memorandums of understanding. New Zealand has supported Australian spills and the Gulf of Mexico spill in recent years under these agreements.

Equipment
HMNZ Ships: Endeavour, Manawanui, Rotoiti and Taupo.
The Awanuia a double-hulled bunker barge, capable of holding 1,000 tonnes of Rena's oil, designed for refuelling ships at sea.
Ports of Auckland tug Waka Kume is assisting with the salvage operation.
Two ocean-going barges Northern Quest and Phoenix carrying specialist equipment and trained oil spill responders are tasked with recovering quantities of heavy fuel oil in the water.
An Iroquois and a Sea Sprite helicopter from the New Zealand Defence Force.
Two oil recovery vessels from Auckland and Picton, two ocean going vessels and two supply barges.
1,200 metres of ocean going booms from Taranaki and Australia.
SalvageAwanuia fuel tanker and a tug Koroki deployed from Port of Auckland to assist the salvage operation.
A salvage plan has been prepared by Svitzer. MNZ, with assistance from technical experts, is reviewing the plan.
Salvage equipment brought in from Svitzer’s main Sydney warehouse on Sunday includes air compressors, power generators, chains, shackles, ropes, tools and oil removal equipment.
A Bell 214 Helicopter is being prepared for the task of flying equipment from Tauranga to the casualty. This is a big heavy duty industrial helicopter that can carry about 3 tonnes of gear at a time. There will be multiple back and forth flights.
A 25-strong salvage team has been on board Rena but has been evacuated due to bad weather.

Wildlife
Nine oiled birds have been treated, and are all doing well.
Four dead oiled birds found on Thursday - no reported casualties since then.
Centres set up on the mainland and on Motiti Island
85 personnel in 14 teams working on the response
Report affected wildlife to 0800 333 771, giving precise details of location, animal species and number of animals.
Do not handle, move or attempt to clean affected wildlife.

The wildlife team will deal with affected wildlife.


Not sure where the 214 is from but I can hear it and the Iroquios every now and then

Doug , since we don,t have any input nor in anything in any sort off control in what is logic ... The containers should have been moved day one if not two , the oil , that was a no brainer , and we are not allowed ideally many fixs or cannot afford this or that , who the frig cares or why about Rugby .. this is not a EQ , in aviation they say its a big sky , 929 ft of ship say 20 kts - one bloody fast reef and as for Joe public not allowed to help it seems someone really dose not no or group no there jobs and should be fired .

How to suggest we get the containers off then?????? They are way too big for a chopper and sea is too rough to get next to the ship..maybe there was a window of opportunity last week but I dont think anything was here (in terms of ships with cranes etc) to take them off when the sea was calm

The only one we should be blaming is the ship's navigator and captain!

Remove containers one by one in control slip , been done before , jack and drop then tow , every 20 ton top weight minus lean , simple engineering , trouble and fact is they sat on there hands , all it takes is a planner and could have been done in hours .

Naki wrote:

QUOTE (Naki @ Oct 11 2011,5:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only one we should be blaming is the ship's navigator and captain!

Within reason , all not within required workplace should be on deck till outside harbour threats .. the two above starters but others also on the head hunting list .

I think they're doing a lot more than we can all see.

benwynn wrote:

QUOTE (benwynn @ Oct 11 2011,6:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think they're doing a lot more than we can all see.

A week , Ben , that is rubbish .. now talking about a ship that could lift TEU (standard 20/40 container) , may have lighting load for a move , earlier insurance people would have halted it .. and govt have done the i don't no , fuel oil should have primary removal in 12 hours , its like everything else the bean counters come in rather the engineers or maritime safety control who but then get hands tied .

I'm enjoying hearing criticism from those uneducated in the field of oil spill recovery.

I know how annoyed everyone gets when armchair aviators come up with conclusions as to why air crashes happen, is this not the same kind of thing? Perhaps this would be best left to the haval architects/recovery specialists etc.

victor_alpha_charlie wrote:

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Oct 11 2011,6:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

uneducated in the field of oil spill recovery.

Perhaps this would be best left to the haval architects/recovery specialists etc.

Perhaps there is not much difference between the Ocean and Dry land , oil spill recovery , I had little or no joy from the council or the company who did not mind dumping 16X20 liters , in the late 80 s and early 90s ...

Come synthetic , Industrial , coolant and detergents and have a little no , worked with for years ....

Thanks Paul for a bit of sanity....

An old Railway supervisor told me that some of these containers weigh about 40 tons (tonnes.) He said from hour one, that there was no
copters in NZ that would look at them.

Tow them ashore, one at a time, 15 K's ---- come on ?

There was nothing in the Tauranga Port to transfer oil to, no ship with the facilities to take them off.

Now everyone is blaming the Government....should every Port in NZ have the ability to rush out and deal with this
type of situation, and if so, how many tax-payers will front the bill....?

This mess is going to be coming ashore, and pensioners like my wife and I have already put our names forward to assist, I can
understand that all those with vested Commercial interests are upset.

I wonder what the Legal ramifications would be down the track if NZ rushed in over the heads of the Salvors and Shipping Company
and made some bad decisions.

Since Pike River we have become a nation of know-all blame seekers.

Bazza wrote:

QUOTE (Bazza @ Oct 11 2011,8:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Paul for a bit of sanity....

An old Railway supervisor told me that some of these containers weigh about 40 tons (tonnes.) He said from hour one, that there was no
copters in NZ that would look at them.

Tow them ashore, one at a time, 15 K's ---- come on ?

There was nothing in the Tauranga Port to transfer oil to, no ship with the facilities to take them off.

Now everyone is blaming the Government....should every Port in NZ have the ability to rush out and deal with this
type of situation, and if so, how many tax-payers will front the bill....?

This mess is going to be coming ashore, and pensioners like my wife and I have already put our names forward to assist, I can
understand that all those with vested Commercial interests are upset.

I wonder what the Legal ramifications would be down the track if NZ rushed in over the heads of the Salvors and Shipping Company
and made some bad decisions.

Since Pike River we have become a nation of know-all blame seekers.

This.

Bazza wrote:

QUOTE (Bazza @ Oct 11 2011,8:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1 - Sanity....

2- Tow them ashore, one at a time, 15 K's ---- come on ?

3- There was nothing in the Tauranga Port to transfer oil to, no ship with the facilities to take them off.

4 -Now everyone is blaming the Government....should every Port in NZ have the ability to rush out and deal with this
type of situation, and if so, how many tax-payers will front the bill....?

5 -

1 - Sanity ..... Why was it left so late , measure time date to get people to access .. did ship policy take control

2 - Damn the tow , container tie em ! 20/40 tonne sink them !

3 - Oil , missed that chance - 3 days ridiculous , ( 1 ) did ship policy take control

4 - Have a lot blame , look above

5 - I no the many people , that,s all .

Sink them full of dairy products and heaven knows what else and pollute more????

The ship is likely to be lost.
I believe there is quite an intricate procedure in the process of salvage.
You can't simply barge in and Do Stuff, there is a telephone directory worth of Maritime Law that applies, and steps that have to be followed, by international convention.

For sure, the responsible crew, but especially the ship's owners, have some issues to face in the months ahead.

And there is 10x more oil on its way to the beaches tomorrow.
Let's hope they resist spraying dispersant, which generally does more harm than good.
There may be a strong case to leave it until the whole 300 tonnes is ashore, concentrate on saving the birds, then clean up properly.

Whatever, there are experts on the ground, and doing their best.
This too shall pass.

"Since Pike River we have become a nation of know-all blame seekers." *amen to that!

And I completely blame the media. The news coverage drives me nuts every night, not sure why I even bother. It's laughable to see people down there cleaning the beach, when yet more could arrive. The media are to blame. They put their environmentalist spin on things and have us all eating out of their hand.

If you ask me, "if you want the omelette, you gotta break some eggs"

Let's just stop container ships coming into our waters shall we? Since we can't cope with a few lumps of oil on the beach and a few dead penguins after one voyage out of 10,000 that has ended in an accident. These things are going to happen from time to time, and we can't get so hung up over a problem that will be solved by experts in the field in their time frame. The environment will recover, well before the next 10,000th voyage that ends in disaster. Humans make mistakes, and we need to accept things will happen. And often in the worst place, at the worst time. But we can't blame the government for this. They are here to govern, not clean up the mess of a private business. That should be for the insurance companies to fight about.

Personally I would rather the government concentrated on running the country, rather than running damage control all the time. Politicians need to let the experts do their thing (look at how slow Chch is going with political interference). And the media.. they need to stop "making the story" and go back to the days of simply reporting it.

*my $2 and 2 cents

Naki wrote:

QUOTE (Naki @ Oct 11 2011,9:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sink them full of dairy products and heaven knows what else and pollute more????

Sink them 'the Containers' and log and chain them to point off reference - take the weight off is of all importance , a ship can break its back and still work , empty tonnage then require a floating d/dock to fix .

Shite look at it .. if 80 years ago an entire flank surrounded , .. now in come mainly civilians can lift the entire British Expeditionary Force , Dunkirk 1940 , course loss equipment but returned with the population plus off Christchurch back then (338,000) troops was huge .

Today we are controlled by to many who can control , others who won't , SANITY , is a word to many times repeated , a sausages sizzle for a mouth guard ... as this was happening .

AlisterC wrote:

QUOTE (AlisterC @ Oct 11 2011,10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

*my $2 and 2 cents

Bugger .. no oil for me , I mean mato sause

AlisterC wrote:

QUOTE (AlisterC @ Oct 11 2011,10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

everything Alister said

Right on the button there mate.

There is plenty being done and has been since it happened, I guess it's a bit like we in the North Island saw of CHCH's quake, media reports focus on the sensationalism, and people base their opinions on what they see and hear reported.

I have a close friend with everything he owns in two containers on that ship. He is going to be more affected in the long run than the bleeding heart hippies on the beach playing in the oil goop that they are continually told to leave alone. No one has put him and his family on TV.

actually, we should get rid of oil and fuel powered ships all together and use nuclear power. No risk of oil leaks?

The silver lining is that disasters like this do focus attention on how mucky shipping really is.
Their fuel is the nastiest on the planet, and a couple of dozen of the big ones pollute as much as all the world's cars put together.

It might not be necessary to nuke the Mount, however.
I'm surprised we don't see more of this:
http://www.skysails.info/english/
Perhaps the price of fossil fuels needs to go even higher.
Green only really works when it pays, too.