Anti Nuclear NZ

[Ian Warren]

I narrowed it down to one only Forrestal class , the USS Ranger CVA-61 , other off class were going SLEP modifications or Med deployment or was USS Kitty Hawk CVA-63 and last only in the area was USS Constellation CVA-64 , all these were noted on Indian Ocean and Western Deployments that handle Tomcats , I missed spotting the USS Midway in Sydney Harbour in 1987 by two weeks ... bugger me !

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (toprob @ Jul 27 2012,12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is an ago-old subject which will -- and should -- always be discussed, but it is a, um, complex issue. 'Tiresome' is a good word, when I was watching the video from Naki's 'WW1 Top Guns', my flatmate was kind of amused, as I normally refuse to watch any sort of historical war doco. It was just the local connection which interested me, but I can see attraction from the point of view of developing technology. I can't imagine what sort of aviation we'd have these days if it wasn't driven by war. My flatmate is an avid war doco 'fan', her father was a fighter pilot in the Pacific, killed in an accidental crash landin, so she sees things a lot differently from me.

I do believe that war is a 'natural' human drive, but it only really works if it is used properly. There has always been a 'warrior' type, but luckily they don't always hold power. Sometimes a tribe/nation will 'breed' warriors for a specific purpose, but this isn't sustainable for long -- after a few generations the warriors tend to kill themselves off, and the rest are happy to go back to the less violent ways of daily life, such as trade, diplomacy, cultural exchange and inter-breeding.

The industrial revolution kind of messed the whole system up, to the extent that these days a trained 'warrior' can sit in a bunker (or an office) in a different hemisphere than me, and still manage to threaten me. This isn't sustainable at all, and we have seen a huge shift to global peace, but it will happen at its own pace -- maybe five hundred years from the start of the industrial revolution, which hopefully puts us half way there.

Technology today puts us in a very weird position -- I can hear the views of people all over the world, which makes it difficult for me to use ignorance as an excuse for hatred. My flatmate's mother remarried after the war, her second husband fought as well, so his attitudes were completely strange to me. I've seen a map of their European holiday -- a rather convoluted itinerary designed to keep away from the evil Germans. But his attitude to Germany was nothing compared to his hatred of the Japanese. I really believe that his generation were victims of the first step towards war -- dehumanising the enemy. These days this is trickier to do, but this still happens every day -- the US has done a great job of dehumanising Muslims, for instance. Hopefully they won't get to the final stage of the process.

Lol you have a very interesting view on the world.

QUOTE

after a few generations the warriors tend to kill themselves off, and the rest are happy to go back to the less violent ways of daily life, such as trade, diplomacy, cultural exchange and inter-breeding.[/quote]

I don't think so Tim, where on earth did you get this idea from? Perhaps from playing games like civilisation maybe IRL Warriors are soldiers that society pays to protect there country, land, people. In no way has any civilisation allowed its Army to die off! They do cut back and reorganise them but in no way do they completely write them off as its necessary for stability not only for their Nation but also for the neighbouring Countrys.

QUOTE

But his attitude to Germany was nothing compared to his hatred of the Japanese. I really believe that his generation were victims of the first step towards war -- dehumanising the enemy.[/quote]

Probably because he knows about the attrocities committed by the Japanese during World War 2, not only were attrocites commited against New Zealanders but also all other countrys they invaded including China. Try reading up on it and you will understand why. Germany also committed attrocites but because New Zealand signed the Geneva convention most NZers never had to suffer what the Russians went through(who were not under the Geneva convention because their country never signed it, both Germany and Russia treated their POWs(German and Russian) very badly)

Wars happen because of resources, religion, politics etc, just because we are in an isolated country does not mean NZ cannot be invaded Japan had plans to invade NZ on Chrismas eve during WW2. In a Cold war scenario NZ had 3 Nuclear targets on it that were likely to get hit in the event of Nuclear escalation. Fortunately thats not the case now but NZ will always require a decent Armed Forces for stability in the region.

SUBS17

Senior Member

 

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:16 am

Posts: 1745

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[Ian Warren]

Dose not matter who's side your on , good guys and bloody bad guys on both , showing AdeP last night this German airman who gets killed two months later ... as Sholtz would say 'Jolly Joker' , part off the discussion we had watch propoganda vid's at Wiggy yesterday , I did no many old Soldiers and one Sailor from WWII , Kiwi's who said thank god for the Nukes .

[SUBS17]

Now for some cool stuff, Nukes are bad but there is some quite awesome stories out there on some of the crazy stuff that happened during nuclear testing.(BTW I'm not Pro-Nukes, Nukes are bad so don't get the wrong idea)

The biggest nuclear bomb ever tested the Tsar Bomba


Weight 27,000 kilograms (60,000 lb)
Length 8 metres (26 ft)
Diameter 2.1 metres (6.9 ft)
Yield 50 Megatons

QUOTE

Tsar Bomb was flown to its test site by a specially modified Tu-95V release plane, flown by Major Andrei Durnovtsev. Taking off from an airfield in the Kola Peninsula, the release plane was accompanied by a Tu-16 observer plane that took air samples and filmed the test. Both aircraft were painted with a special reflective white paint to limit heat damage.

The bomb, weighing 27 tons, was so large (8 metres (26 ft) long by 2 metres (6.6 ft) in diameter) that the Tu-95V had to have its bomb bay doors and fuselage fuel tanks removed. The bomb was attached to an 800 kilogram parachute, which gave the release and observer planes time to fly about 45 kilometres (28 mi) away from ground zero. When detonation occurred the Tu-95V fell one kilometer from its previous altitude due to the shock wave of the bomb.
The Tsar Bomb detonated at 11:32 on October 30, 1961 over the Mityushikha Bay nuclear testing range (Sukhoy Nos Zone C), north of the Arctic Circle over the Novaya Zemlya archipelago in the Arctic Sea. The bomb was dropped from an altitude of 10.5 kilometres (6.5 mi); it was designed to detonate at a height of 4 kilometres (2.5 mi) over the land surface (4.2 kilometres (2.6 mi) over sea level) by barometric sensors.
The original, November 1961 A.E.C. estimate of the yield was 55–60 Mt, but since 1991 all Russian sources have stated its yield as 50 Mt. Khrushchev warned in a filmed speech to the Supreme Soviet of the existence of a 100 Mt bomb (technically the design was capable of this yield). Although simplistic fireball calculations predicted the fireball would impact the ground, the bomb's own shock wave reflected back and prevented this.[9] The fireball reached nearly as high as the altitude of the release plane and was seen almost 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) from ground zero. The subsequent mushroom cloud was about 64 kilometres (40 mi) high (over seven times the height of Mount Everest), which meant that the cloud was above the stratosphere and well inside the mesosphere when it peaked. The base of the cloud was 40 kilometres (25 mi) wide. All buildings in the village of Severny (both wooden and brick), located 55 kilometres (34 mi) from ground zero within the Sukhoy Nos test range, were completely destroyed. In districts hundreds of kilometers from ground zero, wooden houses were destroyed, stone ones lost their roofs, windows and doors; and radio communications were interrupted for almost one hour. One participant in the test saw a bright flash through dark goggles and felt the effects of a thermal pulse even at a distance of 270 kilometres (170 mi). The heat from the explosion could have caused third-degree burns 100 km (62 mi) away from ground zero. A shock wave was observed in the air at Dikson settlement 700 kilometres (430 mi) away; windowpanes were partially broken to distances of 900 kilometres (560 mi). Atmospheric focusing caused blast damage at even greater distances, breaking windows in Norway and Finland. The seismic shock created by the detonation was measurable even on its third passage around the Earth.[10] Its seismic body wave magnitude was about 5 to 5.25.[9] The energy yield was around 7.1 on the Richter scale but, since the bomb was detonated in air rather than underground, most of the energy was not converted to seismic waves. The TNT equivalent of the 50 Mt test could be represented by a cube of TNT 312 meters (1023 feet) on a side, approximately the height of the Eiffel Tower.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsar_Bomba

Video


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9AMtUeyDP0

Last edited by SUBS17 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

[SUBS17]

Here in NZ a couple of times nuclear tests carried out by the US were witnessed in one event the sky over NZ turnned white then red and scared the cr@p out of alot of people. Before one of the nuclear tests the Soviets were doing a U2 was overflying a test area just prior to the bomb going off the pilot seeing this had to nervously wait until he had flown over it which took a while as they are quite slow(45min-1hour). Early tests were atmosheric but later they started doing them underground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOwH55lnA8M

Unfortunately alot of people have been afftected by these tests in the past and alot have got cancer from it and died.