NZFF

I liked the idea of not paying and still getting up the ranks. Plus you can fly 757's, you'd recieve top class training and learn how to tackle problems etc. under pressure. However the aero club is more flexible... Can you fly for international airlines after you leave airforce?

ZKTOM wrote: Can you fly for international airlines after you leave airforce?

Absolutely. Many of the warbirds pilots are ex Air Force airline pilots. lots of Air force pilots I have known are flying overseas.

Deane

I don't want to go to war...........BUT if there was complete world peace or i had a doctors note or something that would allow me not to go to war then Airforce for the world

See this thread...

Military or Private?

I liked the idea of not paying and still getting up the ranks. Plus you can fly 757's

Unfortuantly, it is not that simple, as we have already debated in the above linked thread from ZK-KAG.

Only a selected few make it to the pilots position in the airforce, and they can axe you at any time if are not up to their requirements.

On the other hand, if you are one of the few succesfull applicants, you are forced to have a 6 year contract with them (I think it is 6 years), so if there is a war on in that time- off you go!

The idea of going to war doesnt really bother me too much, if the government said that I had to go, then I would just get on with it and go. Im not saying that I want to go and fight in somebody elses war but I wouldnt be going AWOL or trying to skive off or anything like that. As far as flying for the Airforce vs private flight training, most of the worlds best pilots have airforce experience in some way or another. I rest my case.

12 year return of service for flight crews in the RNZAF.
After you are through the first couple of years you are obviously at a high standard and the airforce is reluctant to get rid of pilots who they have spent upwards of a million dollars on.

If you make it in, go for it... You can do anything after an airforce career.

having been through both systems of training I know they both have their pros and cons.

The airforce will teach you in far more depth and across a broader scope but you have to do it to their timetable and you have the return of service aspect. You will also learn FAR FAR FAR more about the world around you, getting on with others and especially a lot about yourself.( be prepared though - you might not necessarily like all you find out!)

The civilian route has it's advantages as you are a 'customer' and get to call some of the shots ie your timetable etc. however, you do not get as much guarantee as to the experience and/or skill level of the instructor you get. The courses do not tend to cover as much or be anywhere near the same depth.

All up, I really enjoyed a lot about my Airforce 'career' even though it didn't last long. I then went to OZ for civy flying and their system at the time was far superior to NZ, it's changed now and either way you will get good training , so it's up to you to balance out the above to suit your own lifestyle and go for it.

Airforce if you can make it...even if you get chopped mid way through your wings course, you would have still clocked up free hours (but its proabably not good to think about your Airforce career that way)

My brother was a Skyhawk pilot- after the disbanding of 75, 14, and 2 sqns, he flew for the Aussies for a while instructing on the PC9 and Hawk. He then flew for a PelAir for a couple of years- He has recently just moved to HongKong and is flying 747s for Cathay Pacific (he did need to do that two pilot/multi engine stuff for Pelair before being able to fly for Cathay)

The civilian route has it's advantages as you are a 'customer' and get to call some of the shots ie your timetable etc. however, you do not get as much guarantee as to the experience and/or skill level of the instructor you get.

i would tend to disagree... in fact, its more the opposite... you dont get a choice in the airforce, but in civilian-world, you can pick and choose. As you say, you are a 'customer', so if you dont like it, vote with your feet (and your wallet) and go somewhere else.

Its precisely this reason, that I ended up at the flying club where I am... I shopped around all over Auckland (North Shore, AAC, AFS, AFC and even the flying club at Whenuapai) and then choose the one that fitted with what I wanted.

having said that... I would (and did) choose the military option... came within a whisker of making it too... they were looking for 15 pilots that year, they got 9 and I would have been number 10...

unfortunately, the government were hacking and slashing budgets and as I had only just turned 18 at the time, they were a little hesitant due to the budget constraints (I was told that they would have snapped me up the previous year )... so they told me to go away, mature a little and then re-apply.

By the time selection came around the next year, they had started to disband the strike wing etc and turned the air 'force' into glorified S&R

sorry HCP I will have to agree to disagree - the degree of training that the airforce pilots have to go through just to get the 'wings' and then the 'instructors' course as well, is far in excess of that which 'most' (not all) C cat instructors would have ever got and it is generally this level of instructor that newbies get. So although you are assigned an instructor, there is more of a guarantee that they have done far more stringent training to get into that position.

A person entering a flying club or school generally does not have the experience level to know if what they are getting is good or not and it is only after a few lessons that they get an idea - usually after already having spent a bit of money. I am not denegrating the civie instructors, just pointing out what I have seen myself having been a C Cat instructor myself.

I disagree

seriously tho, i think we're just arguing different points... i would definitely agree that the 'level' of instruction is likely to be higher in the airforce... that is obvious in things like tolerances... ie. PPL flight test you're allowed something like ludicrous like +/- 200' for things like a medium turnl... the airforce is more like 50' (note that I do not know what the actual values are)

however, I think you get less choice in the airforce as its their way or the highway... more choice going civilian coz you can pick and choose who/what/where...

as you say, the 'quality' in civ-world may not be as good... but again, thats just a matter of shopping around till you find what you want... as 'quality' is not as easily defined as people like to think[2]...

Shopping around maybe not an option for those who dont have 5+ training establishments in their locale... but thats what you get for living south of the bombay's or north of albany[1]


[1] Don't get me wrong, I hate auckland as much as anyone...
[2] As a demonstration of this, I can define McDonalds as being of 'high quality'... it all depends on your definition of quality

fair enough
I'm not fussed enough about the whole subject to argue anyway. but ref your point 1 about Auckland...

It's okay to hate Auckland and Aucklanders .... It's called 'tall poppy syndrome' everyone naturally hates the best!

as for the rest of NZ. well everyone should have a hobby farm so why shouldn't Auckland.

starting my PPL through the local aeroclub, coz they all know me from intro flights.

when i went to the airforce base at whenuapai the other week, i was talking to one of the Orion captains and he reckons its the best aircraft that the RNZAF fly coz they have the most fun do the most low level flying and more fun operations and stuff. He says therer is a 10 year return of service back to the airforce on $35,000 a year no matter what aircraft you fly, 757 herc or Orion. All the same pay. 10 years return of service seen as how it costs approx one million dollars to train an airfroce pilot.

I myself would have to go with the Military option as the New Zealand government is too p****y to let us fight in the front line. Well maybe we are just a peace-keeping country, how ever most of the hercs right now r over seas in Iraq and East Timor doing some militayr missions. On average there are about 2 out of 5 herc at home each day even less. One of the 757 is over in Texas getting that cargo door and some other upgrades and the other one just sits on the tarmac at NZWP. While all of the P3 Orions are all at home, with the odd one going out for a weekly patrol and the odd rescue mission.
So to be fair, our military doesn't really do much nowadays but i would still rather have free training than going private....

Well those are my thoughts on this

man that took me a long time to write i gtg im tired

ZK-MADMAX wrote: So to be fair, our military doesn't really do much nowadays

Sorry mate - you need a reality check - the Air Force is doing more these days than they ever have. Afganistan and East Timor are very busy, we do more O'seas exercises than ever and still do the usual Ice cube and SAR etc. Just coz we have no jets does not mean we "don't do much". In fact the jets only ever trained, they rarely if ever did "real" jobs.
On top of that all the aircraft are being upgraded or replaced.

Deane

After school I'll probably go into the airforce. Basically for the reasons above I suppose. I can imagine enjoying myself more in the Air Force than in an Aero Club or School.

Alex

Alex wrote:After school I'll probably go into the airforce. Basically for the reasons above I suppose. I can imagine enjoying myself more in the Air Force than in an Aero Club or School.

Alex

Wish i had follow'd your Q Alex .. Good Call !

im going air force but not RNZAF, probably will try the RAF or royal army air corps.

Alex wrote: After school I'll probably go into the airforce. Basically for the reasons above I suppose. I can imagine enjoying myself more in the Air Force than in an Aero Club or School.

Alex

I thought you wanted to go through airways to be an ATCO Alex?