Second Auckland Airport at Whenuapai

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Postby Zöltuger » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:59 pm

Just seeing this article in the NZ Herald this morning got me thinking- what do you guys think of Whenuapai becoming a second Auckland commercial airport?

Whenuapai airport plan gets boost
The prospect of budget airlines sharing Whenuapai Air Base with military aircraft got a boost with three councils becoming part of an airport development company.

Previously reluctant Defence officials also have agreed to discuss joint use.

North Shore City Council and Rodney District Council voted to accept a shareholding offer in a new North West Airport Company.

The offer of a 10 per cent interest for each - promoted as "no cost and minimal risk" - was made by Waitakere City Council and its partner Infratil, which owns Wellington Airport.

Councils hope Whenuapai will have domestic flights and allow travel to and from Australia and the Pacific Islands.

Waitakere Mayor Bob Harvey said yesterday the councils' approval and support shown in a recent Auckland-wide poll meant Auckland now had a robust case to present to the Government, which will decide about the base becoming a second commercial airport for the region.

"All Auckland, we believe, is behind this airport.

"We have serious numbers - the councils represent 500,000 people living within 15km of Whenuapai."

He said a recent poll in the region showed that 53 per cent of people supported the idea of commercial services at Whenuapai as soon as possible, compared with 15 per cent against.

Mr Harvey said Whenuapai was under-used with just military flights and many airports had military operations alongside commercial flights.

In December 2004, the Government said there was no compelling national or strategic considerations to justify its involvement in developing a second airport for Auckland.

It turned down a proposal from Waitakere and Infratil, saying the Defence Force move from Whenuapai to Ohakea was 10 years away.

An approach by the mayors for joint military-civil use was rebuffed by the Defence Force.

But yesterday Rodney councillors were told that Defence was now offering to engage in talks.

Tim Brown of Infratil later confirmed that Defence had contacted the company a month ago.

Armed with the councils' approval, airport advocates would go back to Defence to try to "reignite" the case.

They would also seek a meeting with Defence Minister Phil Goff about the benefits of progressing joint use and suggested that Defence could save on the costs of running the air base.

Mr Goff is in Korea. A spokesman said he was unavailable for comment.

A report for the North Shore and Rodney councils by Cranleigh merchant bankers said the base could handle aircraft up to the size of a 767 with 270 passengers.

However, the main runway was in poor condition and major reconstruction would be needed.

Mr Brown said travellers would have to wait two years for Whenuapai flights because of the need to go through the Resource Management Act processes.

After that, he thought Whenuapai could operate on the same scale as Wellington Airport and would suit low-cost airlines rather than long-haul operators such as Singapore Airlines.

Mr Brown said Virgin Blue airline had said it saw major opportunities if it could use Whenuapai.

Whenuapai Airbase Action Group president Russell Stewart said the group had noise, health and safety concerns for homes in the flightpath.

The group would fight the proposal through the Ombudsman, Resource Management Act and the Environment Court.


The numbers

* $80m - Cost of upgrading airstrip and developing the base as a commercial airport.
* 1.8m - Annual passenger numbers after five years of operations.


Personally, I'm against the idea. Auckland Airport is getting a new runway and has no problems with capacity. It will mean unneccesary duplication of all the infrastructure that goes with an airport, like customs, airbridges and the like. Sydney and Melbourne don't have 2 airports and they have 3x the population. I don't think it will offer significantly lower airfares, and will only cause noise pollution for local residents. To me, the only benefits I see are jobs and travelling times for people living on the north shore- what are your thoughts?
Last edited by Zöltuger on Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Alex » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:41 pm

I voted no, I have AIAL shares. :lol:

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Postby ardypilot » Fri Oct 27, 2006 7:53 pm

I voted yes- it would mean more jobs for Aucklanders (like myself :P ) and more air traffic to plane spot.

Having voted, I just read you guys' comments at the bottom, and agree, Auckland does not really need a second airport as NZAA is soon to built a whole new runway and apron...
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Postby Mike M » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:03 pm

I vote No :P

As it would be further for me to go plane spotting. :D
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Postby Naki » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:10 pm

I think it would be crazy to have the Orions and Seasprites in Ohakea. A combined civilian/military field would be the way to go.

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Postby Zöltuger » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:31 pm

what if there was better transport from the north shore to the airport- say a direct rail route. that would be less expensive than duplicating an international airport.

as for landing fees, i can't imagine them being significantly lower than auckland, especially after costs like building/upgrading the a new terminal. even if they are lower, landing fees are only part of an airlines operating cost, probably insignificant when comparing them to fuel costs, labour, maintainance etc.

Auckland would always lower their fees anyway to try and compete, so fares would fall regardless. in that way, a second airport is a good idea. but i still beleive its a waste of money and unneccesary duplication
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Postby bigdogshark62 » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:46 am

What would the costs be of a direct rail link from the North Shore to NZAA? With all the environmental impact studies and such, plus the cost of land and development, it would likely cost MORE than the $80m that is planned for Whenuapai upgrade. Besides that, where would they put the rail link? Out west, probably. Is there enough room? The west is growing like a weed. There would be nearly as many concerns from homeowners about the rail line as there is about the airport.

I have an opinion, but I should stay out of it as I am not CURRENTLY a resident, and we have enough problems where I DO live (like paedophile politicians and mid-term elections). :rolleyes:
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Postby Zenith » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:07 am

what if there was better transport from the north shore to the airport- say a direct rail route. that would be less expensive than duplicating an international airport.


I have a mate living at Greenhithe and like he said he wont notice the noise since they have lived there long enough to get used too the constant clatter, clatter, thump, thump of the Helicopters. When the 757 does its circuits he says he dont notice it. His only concern is the frequancy of planes and thats the extreme, regulations will be in place that restricts that.

Zöltuger, you have got to be kidding :P A rail link and improved transport to the city from the shore, let alone the Airport has been on the cards for years. Can not see that happening in my lifetime :blink:
Few years back they put in the Southern Access road to the Airport (Trollys Spotting area) the idea was to relieve the traffic flow to the Airport. Unfortuanately heading from the North you still have to fight a bottleneck or two.

Rail system is a great idea except it will not be cost effective as it will only serve those on the Rail corridor and ultimately save probably 15 minutes travel time by the time you take in account all the fuss of Parking your Car and tramping to the platform.

Dont think its up to outsiders of Whenuapi area to decide whats best for them.


Could not agree more!
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Postby SUBS17 » Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:57 am

I vote yes keep Whenuapai open and use it for both civilian and military use. The advantages of having an Air Force base there is very good for the countries defence. Also the train idea wouldn't cost millions but billions of dollars as it would have to go underground.(its about time Auckland had an MRT system like Singapore though).
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Postby ZK-KAG » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:47 am

Hey Guys,

I reckon that If there was a decent transport route that could get people there quickley it may be possible, but with the way the roads are at the moment I think it would be a real pain in the behind, esp as I live in East Auckland, it takes a good hour to get there on a good day...

My second point is I think it should remain a military airport and possibly become GA as well. There were plans to move Ardmore and its companies out there, which would have been stupid...How about North Shore?? The facilities would be conducive to much bigger growth and apart from having more runways and bigger ones haha it would mean that more companies could operate outa there too.

One more thing, if we have a change in Government, in the next election I think we could might well see the Air Force getting bigger and then of course the need for an Auckland base.. (which we should have anyway for defence...).

Well thats my 5c worth.. :)

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Postby FlyingKiwi » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:34 am

I think it's a good idea, I voted yes.
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Postby Zöltuger » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:38 am

ZK-KAG wrote: I reckon that If there was a decent transport route that could get people there quickley it may be possible, but with the way the roads are at the moment I think it would be a real pain in the behind, esp as I live in East Auckland, it takes a good hour to get there on a good day...

i agree - i can picture the traffic woes which could occur at 5pm driving to the new airport. obviously this still occurs going to auckland, but this doesn't solve the problem of traffic, it just duplicates it.

as for the train system, of course it will cost more (a lot more!), but you would also get the benefit of being able to take the train from the north shore to the city. failing that, improving the capacity of the roads could make the trip a lot faster.

we seem to be fixated in this country with building new things for the sake of it. like the proposed waterfront stadiums- we already have a stadium at eden park, not to mention mt smart and albany! sure eden park's in the wrong place, but stadiums are a huge waste of valuable real estate that barely get used once a week.

i guess what i'm trying to say is that a second airport is unneccesary. auckland is just too small to need a second airport and building one to save a few people a few bucks and a few minutes off their travel time is a waste of money.
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Postby rAj » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:37 am

I Voted NO..
One Reason is the Cost..Why waste Money and Build a New Terminal and New Runway When Auckland Airport Already has a Domestic Terminal and all the Services etc. If they were to move the DOmestic Operation to Whenuapai, Wht will happen to AKL Domestic Terminal..?

Secondly,
Look at the Distance between Whenuapai and Auckland.Quite far apart..Wht if you have passengers who happens to be taking a flight from the Islands and Plans to continue his journey to say US or UK and his flight arrives in Whenuapai and then he/she has to find away to get themselves all the way to Auckland Airport from Whenuapai..They would already be tired and yet they have to quickly Rush them selves to AKL Airport adn finding a way to get there..Lots of kaos..
Certainly not a wise decision to Move the Domesticl and some International Operation to Whenuapai..
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Postby bigdogshark62 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:44 am

I don't think they'd move ALL domestic flights to Whenuapai. There would still be domestic service at AKL, just at 50-75% of what it is now. Plus "lo-cos" would serve Whenuapai, like Virgin Blue, Freedom, and Jetstar.
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Postby Zöltuger » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:32 am

it certainly won't be Air NZ or Qantas moving to Whenuapai. not only due to the feeders into the international flights, but also because Air NZ have all their maintainence and Koru Lounges etc at NZAA- the politics of moving would be too great

they only way Whenuapai would work is if Jetstar or Virgin Blue (who don't have their own terminal facilities or feeder services at NZAA) used the airport, that way they could do say CHC -> Whenuapai -> NAN or OOL
Last edited by Zöltuger on Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rAj » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:21 pm

Oops, Sorry Guys..
I taught All Domestic Service Would be Moved to Whenuapai..My Bad there.. :unsure:
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