NZFF

by **toprob** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:16 pm

I do feel a bit guilty about bringing this old argument up again, when really I just wanted to compliment Ian on his great screenshot, despite its ineligibility.
I think Alex might have the right idea -- a poll might lay this to rest, I'm not a great believer in democracy on this forum, but this may be the one time where we can get a solution that everyone can live with. I'd quite like to see a reasonably long-running poll (at least through the beginning of next month so it can be mentioned in the newsletter, as I don't have a lot of time for polls with only a fraction of the membership voting) following a week of discussion.
In the meantime, please keep any discussion here, and out of the screenshot comp thread.

by **Peppermint** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:01 am

Hmm...I reckon you should be able to edit screenshots, but maybe at least 70% of it has to be the actual shot from the sim. The people who couldn't edit (like me) would be at a small disadvantage, but hey, you don't need edited shots to have a winner afterall.

by **toprob** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:25 pm

I guess that it's important to define the competition, as it is easy to make assumptions. For instance, a few people have mentioned that because it includes the words 'flightsim' and 'screenshot', it can only be read literally, but I admit I've always seen it differently. I've always assumed that it is a 'Screenshot Art' competition, as the original intention was to produce a banner good enough -- and interesting enough -- to promote the forum as a lively, fun and exciting place which people would like to return to often, and hopefully join.

Of course other people see it differently, and it is this difference which has caused the confusion.

So what is Screenshot Art?
For me, it is any image based on a flightsim screenshot -- I'm happy to leave the decision on whether or not it is art up to the 'artist' and the voters -- but there are a lot of different ways to produce 'Screenshot Art', and limiting these to a handful of techniques doesn't appeal to me, for two reasons. First, I don't think you can tell an 'artist' what sort of art is appropriate. Secondly, the main reason given for excluding heavily edited shots is that most members don't have the skills. So what? Imagine if you were putting on an art exhibition and you had to exclude the better pieces because they were too good for the others to complete with?

And the most important thing to bear in mind -- heavily edited does not equal better! The current banner (April 2008) is my screenshot -- absolutely no editing, no colour adjustment, no brightening, no nothing. If I had played around with it, it wouldn't have worked as well.

By the way, it amuses me that although my shot is unedited, I can use my skills as a scenery designer to make my own mountains specifically for the competition, and get away with it:) I admit I did so as an exercise in irony, or maybe I am just easily amused...

Another misconception -- that Ian's great edit would automatically win! No offence to Ian -- it might well win, and at the moment it would get my vote -- but someone could easily come up with a better screenshot, edited or not. We'd just all have to try harder, as the bar has been raised.

And that's what really, really gets up my nose, that this isn't going to happen because some people are afraid of a little competition, and want the bar lowered so they can compete.

If you have no interest in learning how to edit a screenshot, then work on another angle -- work on getting the best, most interesting unedited shot you can. This may take a lot of work, but probably less than learning to use PhotoShop.

I've said before, all that heavy editing doesn't do much for me, unless it is done really really well. It has nothing to do with skills or lack of them -- I worked as a graphic designer for 15 years, and have a huge amount of photo editing experience, from photo restoration to pre-press work. My graphic design work was almost always photo-based, and I 'lived' scanners, digital printers and editing tools. I have also been 'into' photography for more than 35 years, and have a lot of photography skills, but my goal is always to reproduce the image I saw, rather than create a new image using PhotoShop. I prefer the same with screenshots, but that's my preference. Other folk, other preferences.

However all my experience doesn't make me an artist. I think of my photography as a craft, and although I love photographic art, I'll never produce any. My son, who learnt photography in his final year of school, blew me away with his portfolio, and his experience was exactly nil before he began on it.

I don't own PhotoShop, but I do own an equivalent editing tool -- a lot cheaper than PhotoShop, and it's about 10 years old, and obsolete. I wouldn't know what to do with PhotoShop, and I suspect that for the first year or two I'd produce rubbish with it. But I know my editing software inside and out, and can make it dance when I need to. But I'll still mostly enter unedited screenshots in the competition, because I think they stack up well against the edited shots.

It's a competition, bring in on!

by **victor_alpha_charlie** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:25 pm

Allow editing. All these whingers that are afraid of competition can do as Chopper Reid says-

by **Kelburn** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:56 pm

Haha Chopper Reid.
He's awesome. Look up his video on youtube about airport security.

by **Alex** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:28 pm

victor_alpha_charlie wrote:
QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Apr 8 2008, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Allow editing. All these whingers that are afraid of competition can do as Chopper Reid says-

Constructive huh?

Alex

by **toprob** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:44 pm

A quick moderator edit here, due to this rule:
1. No swearing, and no attempting to bypass the swearing filters by letter substitution;

by **AlisterC** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:03 pm

Screenshot comps are always going to hit snags as one computer might be better than another. We'd love to all vote for the best angle, but the better shot with better details, more realism, less jaggies is going to win. I too don't really have a problem with editing. I think I've posted elsewhere earlier that I think the best screenshot should win. I think you are right Robin that sometimes an edited shot might be best, other weeks, an unedited. I for one have won more than my fair share of screenshots with unedited shots. But again it not only comes down to having an eye for a good shot, but also a computer than can give me the shot I am looking for. I'm all for competing against edited shots. They certainly take a lot more time and effort than my simple point and shoot efforts, so are perhaps even more deserving when they win.

by **victor_alpha_charlie** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:25 pm

Oh my god (am I allowed to say that??) I'm just sick of all these rules.. Screenshot competition = as long as part of it is from a screenshot = It's ok.

I don't really see why people are moaning. Come on guys, if you don't like it (Editing by putting photos in), say it right here, along with your reasons.

You can easily make a great shot without editing, in fact one that can easily compete with an edited one, just by actually trying and spending time. People want to make new rules so they can just have a decent computer, spend 2 secs taking a shot, upload it, then win a $40 prize. Some effort has to actually go into it (Perhaps by editing).

Why don't we make a rule saying "Your shot can be Ok, but don't make it too good, or people will ridicule it and make another rule against whatever made your shot great."

QUOTE

Constructive huh?

Alex[/quote]

You're right. Probably about as constructive as making a whole lot of rules destroying creativity.

Last edited by victor_alpha_charlie on Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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