NZFF

Aharon wrote:Shalom and greetings all my pals,


Ok I bought Carenado products: B350i King, B1900, and C208 for 8 bucks each and also C208 cargo expansion for 2 bucks for FSX use

God help me!!

Would appreciate any advice or tip from any seasoned Carenado users for first time Carenado user (me)

Regards,

Aharon

No offence but why are you spending money on fsx? at least go to P3D?

Dash8captain wrote:

No offence but why are you spending money on fsx? at least go to P3D?

For three reasons: it is lousy 8 bucks per plane and measly 2 bucks for cargo expansion (that is same price as Starbucks coffee which I never drink coffee in my entire life)

And second reason is that I intend to keep FSX for about 2 more years until MS2020 perfects itself ironing out any bugs.

And third reason is that FSX photoreal ground sceneries of South Island of New Zealand by Godzone and local New Zealand software companies can embarrass and beat P3D or XP-11 or MS2020 especially local NZ software companies use correct and realistic custom made buildings in Wellington and Christchurch while MS2020 use enormous letter X on roof of stadium in Wellington for unknown reason.

Regards,

Aharon

I can't speak for MSFS but the XP rendering engine and the freeware photo scenery blow FSX out of the water and the NZ XP community has tarted up virtually every airport. The ONLY thing FSX has going for it now, for me anyway, are the carrier ops from the now defunct Flying Stations. Nothing wrong with FSX but it's an ancient platform and the hobby is now so far ahead of that tech.

Aharon wrote:

Dash8captain wrote:

And third reason is that FSX photoreal ground sceneries of South Island of New Zealand by Godzone and local New Zealand software companies can embarrass and beat P3D or XP-11 or MS2020 especially local NZ software companies use correct and realistic custom made buildings in Wellington and Christchurch while MS2020 use enormous letter X on roof of stadium in Wellington for unknown reason.

Thats just not true MSFS scenery blows FSX or P3D away in regards to scenery - have you not seen any screenshots of MSFS? and this is default scenery with out any addons

Theres no doubt that Robs Godzone scenery at the time for FSX was very good but you simply cant compare FSX scenery to MSFS and soon Flightbeam will be releasing NZWN which will fix your stadium roof you seem so fixated on haha

chopper_nut wrote:I can't speak for MSFS but the XP rendering engine and the freeware photo scenery blow FSX out of the water and the NZ XP community has tarted up virtually every airport. . Nothing wrong with FSX but it's an ancient platform and the hobby is now so far ahead of that tech.

I thought MS2020 is far better than XP-11?? Anyway, like I said, I will keep FSX for 2 more years until MS2020 perfects itself.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I am waiting for any historic jet aircraft to start showing up in MS2020.

Dash8captain wrote:

Thats just not true MSFS scenery blows FSX or P3D away in regards to scenery - have you not seen any screenshots of MSFS? and this is default scenery with out any addons
Theres no doubt that Robs Godzone scenery at the time for FSX was very good but you simply cant compare FSX scenery to MSFS

MS2020 does NOT have what you see in my FSX screenshot over city of Christchurch as seen below. Heck Godzone sceneries use real buildings in real correct colors!!

Passing Woolston suburb of Christchurch where you can see red building in front of right engine which is actually The Tannery Mall of shops and restaurants as well as Deluxe Cinema. Also the red building behind the right wing is National Storage which is self storage facility located at 89 Garland Road. You can see the river called Heathcote River

Dash8captain wrote: and soon Flightbeam will be releasing NZWN which will fix your stadium roof you seem so fixated on haha

Well actually I do not have MS2020 and it is actually your MS2020 screenshot showing letter X on roof of stadium in Wellington which you responded to my inquiry that you had no idea why MS2020 would put enormous letter X on the roof. Smiling

Regards,

Aharon

Aharon wrote:

Dash8captain wrote:

Thats just not true MSFS scenery blows FSX or P3D away in regards to scenery - have you not seen any screenshots of MSFS? and this is default scenery with out any addons
Theres no doubt that Robs Godzone scenery at the time for FSX was very good but you simply cant compare FSX scenery to MSFS

MS2020 does NOT have what you see in my FSX screenshot over city of Christchurch as seen below. Heck Godzone sceneries use real buildings in real correct colors!!

Passing Woolston suburb of Christchurch where you can see red building in front of right engine which is actually The Tannery Mall of shops and restaurants as well as Deluxe Cinema. Also the red building behind the right wing is National Storage which is self storage facility located at 89 Garland Road. You can see the river called Heathcote River

Dash8captain wrote: and soon Flightbeam will be releasing NZWN which will fix your stadium roof you seem so fixated on haha

Well actually I do not have MS2020 and it is actually your MS2020 screenshot showing letter X on roof of stadium in Wellington which you responded to my inquiry that you had no idea why MS2020 would put enormous letter X on the roof. Smiling

Regards,

Aharon

Ok Aharon lets take a look - firstly you cant say that it doesn't have what FSX has if you haven't used it and secondly it does have exactly what your talking about, why you think a color of 1 building or something is so important i really don't know, its a flight simulator not a car simulator

Take a lot at the below screenshot this was taken in roughly the same spot as yours minus the aircraft and you will see your favorite red storage building is there lol along with the mall and cinema etc and this is out oif the box where as you have used an add-on



MSFS integrates Bing maps which obviously comes from satellite images so there no way a 15 year old sim can compete with the current MSFS

And why your so obsessed with the stadium building in WLG is a mystery but i think the angle I took the shot on probably makes it look that way

Gee whizz, now I'm completely baffled. I think I'm going a bit stir crazy, scratching my head with what you two are on about.

Make up your mind. Is it an X or a T that you are rattling on about. Did a bit of digging found this and the image pics in this topic ANZ A320 Neo Wing Shots.

Dash8captain wrote:

Aharon wrote:Great take off shots

I was trying to match your first screenshot showing a building with letter T on roof and the circle intersection street road to Google maps of Wellington but could NOT find it in Google maps.

Where is the location (name of intersection street or building) in that first screenshot please?

Regards,

Aharon

It's the ASB Sports centre which is at 72 Kemp Street, Kilbirnie, not sure why the sim has a T on the roof as it doesnt in real life

Generally speaking the majority of buildings in MSFS are created through a process called Procedural generation. Recommend watching this video for an overview, it details the process that MSFS has a development partnership with a company called Blackshark.ai for building structure generation.



In other words buildings in MSFS are "Procedurally generated" based of satellite image data or Photogrammetry data gather from various sources such as Microsoft's Bing Map data base, MSFS then interprets the data collection to generate a image of a building object and it's building height level elevation comparison within the area.

Recommend watching this video for an overview, it details the process that MSFS has a development partnership with Microsoft's Bing Maps.



In the case of the ASB Sports Centre. It would appear that during the Blackshark AI image gathering, data has become misconstrued with what is seen from the outline of the roof top likely gathered from a satellite image which has place an elevated upper portion section to the ASB Sports Centre roof top. Guessing that MSFS is trying to represent something that looks like some kind of a roof top Building Power Plant or Air Conditioning Unit structured area portion which in this case doesn't exist in real life.

What Aharon thinks is a T or is it an X. Is actually called an optical illusion of a part misconstrued elevated building structure, that's sitting on-top of a building structure. It's caused through the flight time during the day light time with angle of sunlight direction, with use of the MSFS lighting and shadowing effects as seen from the viewing angle of the screen shot. This shows the advancement use of modern lighting techniques that MSFS uses, something that FSX does not have.

What Aharon thinks is a T, is actually in part a procedurally generated building structure shadow outline. This demonstrates how far the flight simulation platform of MSFS has advanced on in terms of modern computing power technology now being used as opposed to what was and is seen in the now aging FSX technology.

Radar88 wrote:Gee whizz, now I'm completely baffled. I think I'm going a bit stir crazy, scratching my head with what you two are on about.

Make up your mind. Is it an X or a T that you are rattling on about.

It is my mistake. It was supposed to be letter T, not X. Thanks for reviving my memory with your proof of hyperlink showing original discussion about letter T on the roof.

My apologies to anyone for mistaking letter X when it was supposed to be letter T

And thanks for interesting scientific explanations on how MS2020 works.

Regards,

Aharon

Dash8captain wrote: why you think a color of 1 building or something is so important i really don't know, its a flight simulator not a car simulator
And why your so obsessed with the stadium building in WLG is a mystery

Because I believe in realism and I enjoy comparing screenshots to Google satellite maps to find names of streets, rivers, etc.

Anyway I am sticking with FSX for 2 more years until MS2020 perfects itself ironing out any bugs and MORE IMPORTANT, MS2020 gets all historic jet aircrafts such as 707s or 727s or DC-10s or so on.

And as for Carenado aircrafts, it is same price as Sunday copy of newspaper anyway (it is six to 8 bucks in America for Sunday copy)

Regards,

Aharon

Aharon wrote:
I thought MS2020 is far better than XP-11??


Aharon

Far better? No. MSFS does some things really well in terms of weather generation and lighting. The whole world covered in maps a big tech leap and it turns out that developers are still merging that with their custom photos for airports anyway. XP still has a lot going for it though. It is a lot more customisable with scripts and plugins, we now have volumetric clouds that look nearly as good as MSFS and XP is far more helicopter ready although this will change next year probably. XP12 is coming too so

chopper_nut wrote:
Far better? No.

I am surprised to hear that XP-11 or XP-12 is better than MS2020

Regards,

Aharon

Dash8captain wrote:MSFS integrates Bing maps which obviously comes from satellite images so there no way a 15 year old sim can compete with the current MSFS

I'll jump in here to say that there's a mod out for MSFS that allows you to stream in Google Earth tiles instead of the default Bing ones. Results are variable (for NZ at least). Some Google areas are way better than Bing, some worse (!).

I have MSFS and XP11 (but had to remove P3D). With all the latest scenery doodads for MSFS, there's absolutely no doubt that *graphically* MSFS is miles ahead of the others. What lets it down (IMHO) is the poor implentation of the more traditional *simulation* features that we've come to expect: AI, ATC, flight modelling and overall *realism*.

My hope is that, with all the "eye-candy" mostly in place, Asobo can concentrate on the more hardcore features (and maybe dump the ludicrous "update" procedure that introdices more bugs that it fixes).

Adam.

EDIT: Sorry to hijack your thread, Aharon ... but here are some examples of MSFS "eye candy" (!!):

Adamski wrote:

I have MSFS and XP11 (but had to remove P3D).

I am amazed and surprised that you dumped P3D. Any reason for that?

Adamski wrote: (and maybe dump the ludicrous "update" procedure that introduces more bugs that it fixes).

You cannot imagine how much this makes me laugh That is interesting

Adamski wrote: .

EDIT: Sorry to hijack your thread, Aharon

No need to apologize. I encourage intellectual discussion on aviation and flight sim.

BTW I love your third screenshot!!! Yes I agree that MS2020 is amazing but I prefer to wait 2 years until it perfects itself.

And thank you for scientific explanation on comparison between Bing and Google mapping.

Regards,

Aharon

Aharon wrote:I am amazed and surprised that you dumped P3D. Any reason for that?

Purely lack of HD/SSD space and not enough SATA slots. No spare cash either, to replace an existing drive with a larger one (plus all the moving/reinstalling that would be required).
A shame in many ways, as most of my payware was for P3D. I chose to keep XP11 because it all lives in one folder and can easily be moved if necessary. It also looked as if it might still be developed and "going somewhere" whereas I was beginning to think P3D was running out of steam. With MSFS swamping the current market (rightly or wrongly), many developers have stopped coding for P3D.

Aharon wrote:BTW I love your third screenshot!!! Yes I agree that MS2020 is amazing but I prefer to wait 2 years until it perfects itself.

MSFS scores big in the lighting department! If Asobo would only open up the SDK more freely to 3rd party developers, then MSFS would really "fly", considering what PMDG and A2A did for FSX/P3D (ie. coding *outside the sim*).

I dumped p3d for MSFS. Apart form decent AI and for now A2A aircraft there was no reason to use P3d any more. MSFS is way superior.

In regards to remarks about third party developers not using coding outside the sim is incorrect as PMDG ( and presumably A2A will too) do along with other developers

Naki wrote:In regards to remarks about third party developers not using coding outside the sim is incorrect as PMDG ( and presumably A2A will too) do along with other developers

There may be a slight misunderstanding there ... I meant that the developers that *do* code outside the sim have been finding it difficult to work with MSFS (via the SKD). Both PMDG have stated as much but, to be fair, both have said they're working with Asobo on the various issues.

Yes agreed on that point...noting the issues A2A are having. I guess the other issue is that goal posts keep moving with every update.

The updates are the single worst part of the MSFS experience for me. Overall I love it and I can't see myself ever going back to anything else, but the actual process of doing an update fills me with dread, and there does always seem to be something new broken for everything they fix. Currently my TrackIR doesn't work after the last big update which is super frustrating.