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Powering up the CS 767-300 from cold and dark

https://nzff.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11782

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:52 am
by BigBird
Hi guys,

I thought I would put together a start up checklist for those who want to to start their Captain Sim 767-300 from a cold and dark state. thumbup1.gif

Note: I have divided the overhead panel in to sections and refer to each section from left to right as 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 (You will see what I mean when you open the panel)

Most of this procedure involves using the overhead panel. You will have to open the pedestal to set the Parking Brakes and access the Fuel Cut Off switches and the main panel to set the Auto Brakes.


[Parking brake (pedestal) – set]

2. BAT switch – on
Stby Power – auto
Ext Pwr – on (not modelled)
1. IRS (x3 selectors) - Align
Yaw Dampers – on
Hyd pumps L & R Eng – on
2. APU Gen – on
Bus Ties – auto
Utility Bus L & R – on
L & R Gen Cont – on
APU – start (‘RUN’ will flash as it powers up)
1. IRS (x3 selectors) – Nav


APU – when ‘RUN’ showing continuously – Ext Pwr – off (not modelled)


3. Emergency Lights – auto
Window Heat – all on
Engine Starter – both
Start Selectors – off
Fuel Pumps – off
Cross Feed – off
4. Passenger Signs – auto
5. Bleed Air Panel section
L & R Eng – off
APU – on
L, C & R Isolation – on
Trim Air – on


[Programme FMC]

[Configure MCP]


1. C1 & C2 Hyd Elec Pumps – on
3. Fuel pumps – on


[Red Anti Collision Light – on]


5. L & R Packs – off


[Trim setting (pedestal) – set to FMC reading]

[Release Parking Brakes]

[Start Push Back]


3. R Starter – GND (@ 18% N2 R Fuel Cut Off Switch (pedestal) – run)

L Starter – GND (@ 18% N2 L Fuel Cut Off Switch (pedestal) – run)


----AFTER START----


2. APU – off
APU Gen – off
5. APU Bleed – off
Isolation switch – off
L & R Packs –auto


Auto Brakes (main panel) – RTO


----TAXI TO RUNWAY----

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:38 am
by Splitpin
thumbup1.gif Very handy, thank you BB.
My problem is ....[Programme FMC].....by the time i get that all sortred.......Im out of fuel tongue.gif

Thanks again BB thumbup1.gif

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:54 am
by BigBird
Yeah mate, I'm still having a couple of issues with FMC programming too.

I'm going to try to put together an in depth demo flight, say NZAA - NZWN (including programming the FMC thumbup1.gif ). I already have a fair bit jotted down as notes including takeoff, in-flight, approach, landing, shut down etc. Once I really get the FMC nailed and after flying a few test flights without a major accident or running off the end of the runway icon_redface.gif, I will type it all up and share. biggrin.gif

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:06 pm
by Splitpin
notworthy.gif Sounds great.....I'll just stay VFR untill your done.....thanks BB thumbup1.gif

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:51 pm
by Adamski
BigBird wrote:
QUOTE (BigBird @ Apr 22 2010, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought I would put together a start up checklist for those who want to to start their Captain Sim 767-300 from a cold and dark state. thumbup1.gif

Excellent! Thank you! I'm just getting into my CS 767 - and have managed to do C&D startups by following the instructions in the manual, but they're interspersed with actions that refer to the real thing (and can't be simulated in FSX) so it gets a bit confusing. I'll give your checklist a go!

As to the FMS - it's very similar to the Wilco 737 one I've been flying a lot lately. I can do most things on it if I pre-create and import a flight plan. I've worked out a way of estimating the CG% values for the trim setting (see below). I've never got my head around adding intersections or airways. Come to think of it, SIDS and STARS baffle me as well winkyy.gif

CG% Estimator
============
1) Load up pax, cargo, fuel as required.
2) Go to the Aircraft/Fuel & Payload screen and study the the diagram that shows the CG position.
3) Estimate the centre position of the marker by counting the steps. Most values will fall in the range depicted by the brackets in the middle (steps 8 - 18).

Bold denotes one of the thicker step lines:

------------------------
08: 25.0
------------------------
09: 28.125
10: 31.25
11: 34.375
12: 37.5
------------------------
13: 40.625
------------------------
14: 43.75
15: 46.875
16: 50.0
17: 53.125
------------------------
18: 56.25
------------------------

So ... a point half way between steps 10 (31.25) and 11 (34.375) will be approximately 32.81 (32.8 in the CDU).
Here's a diagram I made (hope I got it right!):

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:07 pm
by Adamski
BigBird wrote:
QUOTE (BigBird @ Apr 22 2010, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
APU – when ‘RUN’ showing continuously – Ext Pwr – off (not modelled)

It is modelled winkyy.gif ... you have to be parked at a gate with parking brakes on ... then you click on the "E" icon in the little views selector. This will activate the ext. power light in the OH panel.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:10 pm
by BigBird
That'd be cool if you could test my checklist out Adamski thumbup1.gif. Would be good to know if I've left anything out or if anything doesn't make sense.

Cheers for the info on the CG%. A couple of guys have said they just put in 34% regardless. Will be good to now have a way of accurately calculating that figure thumbup1.gif .

There are a couple of things on the FMC I'm not 100% what to enter and that is the fuel reserves and the cost index. I've just been putting in 6% and 100 respectively. I know what both mean, just not sure how to arrive at those figures. Maybe I'd better RTFM laugh.gif

I was flying NZAA to NZWN last night and all was programmed sweet as... then somehow on the DEP/ARR page of the FMC I selected one of NZAA's STARs for landing and nothing I tried would let me change it back to NZWN.


The first page looked something like this;

DEP/ARR 1/2

<---DEP NZAA ARR--->
NZAA ARR--->



When it should have looked like this;

DEP/ARR 1/2

<---DEP NZAA ARR--->
NZWN ARR--->



I could display the NZWN STARs but not select any of them.

Adamski wrote:
QUOTE (Adamski @ Apr 22 2010, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is modelled winkyy.gif ... you have to be parked at a gate with parking brakes on ... then you click on the "E" icon in the little views selector. This will activate the ext. power light in the OH panel.


Ah cool. I was clicking on the button on the OH and it wasn't responding, so I guessed it wasn't featured. Cheers notworthy.gif

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:23 pm
by Adamski
BigBird wrote:
QUOTE (BigBird @ Apr 22 2010, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are a couple of things on the FMC I'm not 100% what to enter and that is the fuel reserves and the cost index. I've just been putting in 6% and 100 respectively. I know what both mean, just not sure how to arrive at those figures. Maybe I'd better RTFM laugh.gif

In my travels in the various forums, I heard that around 0.8 (or should it be 8?) is a good figure for fuel reserves. Similarly, I've seen figures of 65 and 75 for the cost index (where higher is less economic). Your figure of 100(%) will basically turn fuel economy right off. I think airlines instruct their pilots what economy settings to fly at <???>.

I'll try to repeat your SID/STARS thing ... but it seems like a bug to me. I seem to come across loads of CDU/FMC programming bugs in various aircraft and their respective forums.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:05 pm
by deeknow
BigBird wrote:
QUOTE (BigBird @ Apr 22 2010, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are a couple of things on the FMC I'm not 100% what to enter and that is the fuel reserves and the cost index. I've just been putting in 6% and 100 respectively. I know what both mean, just not sure how to arrive at those figures. Maybe I'd better RTFM laugh.gif

Hey BB. Re the reserves, I guess this really depends on, where your flying to, how much fuel you may need to get to the alternate airport should you not be able to land where you were intending to go to, expected hold time, how much taxi burn you expect etc etc.. its something you will get a feel for over time, and of course the commercial guys have it all very well planned out. There does seem to be a general rule that you might plan around, which is to have a safe resevre of not less than the equivalent of 60 minutes holding fuel at 1500ft.

Re Cost Index, that depends on airline really, what they are prepared to burn, how important it is that the flight be on time, and is usually specified on the dispatch note for the flight. Following is a section direct from an uncontrolled copy of the Air NZ 763 operations manual, it may be out of date, but it will be close enough for your purposes:

QUOTE
Air New Zealand has adopted CI40 for standard use on the B767-300. For sectors where flight time may be critical (eg. for crew duty times) a CI300 will be used. The CI to be used for any sector is given on the computer flight plan. The higher the CI used, the higher the fuel burn and total flight plan fuel required.[/quote]

Hope that helps smile.gif

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:49 pm
by Adamski
Splitpin wrote:
QUOTE (Splitpin @ Apr 22 2010, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My problem is ....[Programme FMC].....by the time i get that all sortred.......Im out of fuel tongue.gif

Heh ... you shouldn't be doing that with the engines started winkyy.gif

My procedure is roughly this:

1) Fire up electrics etc. (using ground power).
2) Get IFR clearance etc. - then set req. altitude in a/p.
3) Program the CDU - but you won't have a departure runway yet.
4) Start APU then ask for push back.
5) Start engines. I read somewhere that you don't start them at the gate <??>.
6) Ask for taxi. This will give you the outbound runway which you then dial into the DEP slot on the CDU.

I've absolutely no idea if this is even remotely "realistic" but it does save fuel laugh.gif

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:27 pm
by BigBird
Cheers for all the info guys. notworthy.gif

Not sure of the exact order of things either. I don't know why engine start is left till push back either. I'm guessing it could be something along the lines of isolating the aircraft in case there's a mishap such as an engine fire on start up? Therefore, safer having the aircraft away from the terminal? Keep jet blast away from terminal? Maybe it's just to conserve fuel? Would love to know the reason.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:23 am
by BigBird
Adam, I replied to your PM. Not sure if it sent though.

Adamski has put together a nice and comprehensive start up list which I am more than happy for him to paste up here thumbup1.gif

I flew NZWN to NZAA last night using FMC and finished off with a full auto land. Had a few minor glitches on the way. Nothing major – more to do with me not being a real 767 pilot laugh.gif

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:38 pm
by SA227
QUOTE
safer having the aircraft away from the terminal?[/quote]
That about covers it. Those engines suck in a lot of air and blow a lot out the back. The only time you would start on the gate is when your APU is U/S.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:47 pm
by Adamski
BigBird wrote:
QUOTE (BigBird @ Apr 27 2010, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Adamski has put together a nice and comprehensive start up list which I am more than happy for him to paste up here thumbup1.gif

Thanks, BB - here we go [!!]:

CS B767 Cold & Dark Startup
===============================================================================
Note: This is a cut-down version from the CS B767 manual, with items relating to startup only. It is not a full checklist and doesn't include setting up the cockpit, getting ATC clearances etc.

To use a cold & dark auto start, set up an aircraft with everything turned off (or use the included CS flight) then move to your desired location and save the flight - making sure you have no flight PLAN loaded.

1) Parking brake ON.
2) If at gate, select external power ("E" icon on sub-panels selector) then activate in OH.
3) BAT switch on.
4) STANDBY POWER: AUTO
5) IRS mode selectors: OFF, then NAV. ALIGN lights will flash until the IRS position is entered in the CDU.
6) YAW DAMPER switches ON.
7) EEC (Elec Eng Cont) switches: NORM.

HYDRAULICS/ELECTRICS PANEL
1) Left and right engine PRIMARY pump switches: ON
2) ELECTRIC PRIMARY pump switches: OFF
3) All three DEMAND pump selectors: OFF

ELECTRICAL panel
1) BUS TIE switches: AUTO
2) GENERATOR CONTROL switches: ON
3) APU selector: START, then ON
4) APU Gen: ON

LIGHTING panel
1) GLARESHIELD, AISLE STAND panel, LIGHT OVERRIDE switch - As desired
2) RUNWAY TURNOFF: OFF
3) EMERGENCY LIGHTS switch: ARMED

ENGINE CONTROL panel
1) Engine ignition selector: 1 or 2
2) Engine start selectors: AUTO

FUEL panel
1) CROSSFEED switche: OFF
2) All FUEL PUMP switche: OFF

ANTI-ICE panel
1) WING and ENGINE anti-ice switches: OFF

LIGHTING panel
1) POSITION light switch: As required
2) RED and WHITE ANTI-COLLISION light switches: OFF
3) WING light switch: OFF
4) LANDING light switches: OFF
5) WINDOW HEAT switches: ON

PASSENGER SIGNS panel
1) NO SMOKING selector: AUTO or ON
2) SEATBELTS selector: AUTO or ON

CABIN ALTITUDE CONTROL panel
1) AUTO RATE control: Index
2) LANDING ALTITUDE selector: Destination airport elevation
3) MODE SELECTOR: AUTO 1 or AUTO 2
4) EQUIPMENT COOLING mode selector: AUTO

LIGHTING panel
1) CIRCUIT BREAKER panel light, OVERHEAD PANEL light, DOME LIGHT, LOGO light, INDICATOR LIGHT: As desired

BLEED AIR panel
1) Left and right ENGINE bleed air switches: ON
2) APU bleed air switch: ON
3) LEFT, CENTRE and RIGHT ISOLATION switches: ON

AIR CONDITIONING panel
1) PACK CONTROL selectors: AUTO
2) FLIGHT DECK temperature control: AUTO Set as desired.
3) TRIM AIR switch: ON
4) RECIRCULATION FAN switches: ON
5) CABIN temperature controls: AUTOSet as desired.

CARGO HEAT switches: ON

[Set up CDU]

HYDRAULICS/ELECTRICS PANEL
1) Right ELECTRIC DEMAND pump selector: AUTO
2) C1 and C2 ELECTRIC PRIMARY pump switches: ON
3) Centre AIR DEMAND pump selector: AUTO
4) Left ELECTRIC DEMAND pump selector: AUTO

FUEL panel
1) LEFT and RIGHT FUEL PUMP switches: ON
2) If center tank contains fuel, CENTER FUEL PUMP switches: ON

LIGHTING panel
1) RED ANTI-COLLISION light switch: ON

AIR CONDITIONING panel
1) PACK CONTROL selectors: OFF


ENGINE START PROCEDURE: Normal start sequence is right then left
==============================================================
If in 2D mode, jump out of OH view to the cockpit view + pedestal view after steps 1) and 3)

1) RIGHT engine START selector: GROUND
2) On the pedestal, set FUEL CONTROL switch to RUN when minimum of 15% N2.
3) LEFT engine START selector: GROUND
4) On the pedestal, set FUEL CONTROL switch to RUN when minimum of 15% N2.


AFTER START PROCEDURE
==============================================================
1) APU selector: OFF
2) ENGINE ANTI-ICE switches: As required
3) LEFT and RIGHT ISOLATION switches: OFF
4) PACK CONTROL selectors: AUTO

[Request Clearance]
[Set up Autopilot, EFIS etc.]
[Request Taxi]
[Dial in DEPARTURE info to CDU]
[Set flaps, trim, release brakes ... and off you go!]
All times are UTC + 12 hours
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