NZFF • FS9-FSX

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:31 pm

by Peppermint

QUOTE

what is keeping you from FSX when there are many more opition to chiose from ??[/quote]

The land of the long sandy beach! (NZ as a desert) that, and having to have a pretty good system to take advantage of the new features that FS9 doesn't have. I think once NZ has some more greener land, and a bit more scenery for it I'll switch, but then again, I still need to get a new system.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:39 pm

by Anthony

I think there's a future for both of them, but the future for FS9 is diminishing.

There will be people who can't run FSX (like me) and so stay with earlier versions for that reason, plus probably a few who just don't like change.
But most people are realising that "FSX is the future" (see happytraveller's thread about it here) and are changing to it for that reason.

I suppose eventually development for FS9 will slowly die like it did for FS2002 (what little there was), but not for a while yet.

Don't get me wrong: they're both good, but FSX just seems better, when it works well.
The only exceptions are the weird default scenery (dessert NZ) and a few other things.
What keeps me from FSX is not having a system to run it.

Cheers
Anthony

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:43 pm

by Bazza

I remember this type of topic when FS9 came out - some said they wouldn't change but I suspect over a period of time they moved onto the new one.

There are a few differences this time though... The FS prior to FS9 was never a great success and there was a definite incentive to get away from it. FS9 is generally considered to have been a success and many people are happy with it, and the stuff they've managed to load into it. A lot of hard work went into the downloads in those pre Broadband days when 50MB scenery and planes were not on - although AVSIM's speed is pretty rubbish even now.

About the FS9 time, a lot of people were running some (by todays standards) pretty low-spec PC's and the cost of upgrading their gear was a factor as well. This doesn't seem to be an issue this time around, your fairly average set-up, with a decent video card appears to be sufficient from what I have read. The cost of the FSX software is still within the ballpark and that shouldn't be an issue with serious simmers.

I am still on FS9. I'm happy with what I've built and the thought of starting all over again with an empty New Zealand doesn't ring my bell at all.

However, I think I'll make the move soon but retain my FS9 as others seem to have done. Why...? Basically I suppose I'm curious and feel that I may be missing out on something. There is also the positive aspect of getting it right this time and not making the same errors all over again.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:05 pm

by creator2003

Well just for a upside to brown textures ,i dont have that never had that i install topo that solved that prob for me right away ,scenery, ive installed all i had before and only somethings that are really simple things have gone into FSx no probs
aircraft well same thing no problems and i have better ones now than ive ever had before .
with my own scenerys i made 4 FS9 only the hardens have to be done again ,,money well thats always a sore point but like bazza said thats what us hardcore simmers do and it doesnt change month to month im always wanting more and more chasing the flp dragon ..ive always liked both sims i just thought fsx wasent realeased working right "ie i thought they ripped us off " upside to this is that the sp1 sp2 acc all have made it better than ever ..
system specs i think are important but there is a false around dual cores working better than my little 3ghz p4 cpu ,thats right only a old cpu that kicks butt and is not one bit overclocked ,,dual 1.6x1.6 so you are running just that min spec for FS9 1.6ghz as the other core unless you get tweck to bring on the other 1.6 is doing noting but other cr@p in the background ,my cpu is 100% 3.0ghz running
im looking at a dual core now but it will be cheap and be 3.0ghzX 3.0ghz min as thats what i know will run it ..ram i only have 2gig and could be better if i plz but runs just fine ,Graphic card is only 8600gts 256 mb
these are really low spec but it kicks butt outta any fs9 install i had ...

its good to hear your views and i see there is a want to move forward ,but money is always going to be a problem for most, these are usually ppls that would show you a new payware addon every month though"priority and choise is a pretty simple answer i suppose ,"not a bad thing at all"

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:20 pm

by toprob

As I said earlier, things have started to change lately. Going FSX-only was a big bold step for ARNZ, and they've never looked back. They are leading the charge in some areas of FS development, illustrated by Jon's comment there recently on his repaints 'taking over' Avsim's main page -- there's no lack of direction or talent there, and things are being produced at an alarming rate.

I compare this to the early discussions on FRENZY, where I think a lot of folk here didn't even consider the need for a NZ-wide scenery project aimed at FSX. I've commented before on what I see as a dangerous move to undertake a long-term project for any version other the latest. It seems a lot of work to go to if by the end of it half your originally keen members had moved on, and are now wondering where all the good scenery has got to.

However as someone stuck with a very old computer, I can see the attraction of FS2004. I'd certainly like to be able to take part in FSX's online racing etc with the same sort of performance as my FS2004. But I at least have an upgrade plan, with the aim to move completely to FSX as soon as I can.

QUOTE

The land of the long sandy beach! (NZ as a desert) that, and having to have a pretty good system to take advantage of the new features that FS9 doesn't have. I think once NZ has some more greener land, and a bit more scenery for it I'll switch, but then again, I still need to get a new system.[/quote]

In FS2004 we all complained about the default landclass, which was solved by some nice custom landclass scenery, so it seems strange to see it happening all over again. I installed Christian's FS2004 landclass in FSX in the first week, and I've never looked back.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:24 pm

by Charl

toprob wrote:
QUOTE (toprob @ Jun 3 2008, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
As I said earlier, things have started to change lately. Going FSX-only was a big bold step for ARNZ, and they've never looked back. They are leading the charge in some areas of FS development, illustrated by Jon's comment there recently on his repaints 'taking over' Avsim's main page -- there's no lack of direction or talent there, and things are being produced at an alarming rate.

QUOTE

In FS2004 we all complained about the default landclass...I installed Christian's FS2004 landclass in FSX in the first week, and I've never looked back.[/quote]I also did, but "my" FSX NZ still looks pretty deserty - did I miss something??

FURTHERMORE, I am still waiting for the freeware developers to get a handle on FSX, which does not seem to be happening. I'm not talking about porting stuff over from FS9 either.
FSX has promised a lot, and it seems this is almost tooo big a bite timewise for the freeware community.
With some notable exceptions, aircraft in particular are stuck in some early-FS9 time warp - even the ARNZ repaints are done on stock MS planes, (often mis-identified), as they are all that's available.
There are very few models which use the much-vaunted massive FSX polygon count, probably because of the time requirement.
Maybe this suits Microsoft, and will become a trend for MSFS.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:01 pm

by toprob

QUOTE

Not to detract in any way from Jon's sterling efforts, but some might say the AVSIM front page is taken over because there's nothing else being offered! There's a huge amount of talent at ARNZ, and it's almost a pity to "waste" it on FSX which took so long to get into its stride - you almost would want FSXI delayed a bit, to allow sufficient headroom for the sim to develop.
I hope they continue the charge into the next sim, often people lose interest after expending themselves on the previous version.[/quote]

Partly the point I was making regarding ARNZ -- if a lot more people had just taken a deep breath and make the switch, they wouldn't be hogging the limelight -- it just seems weird to me that they are the exception rather than the rule.

And a quick aside on your other point here -- I don't base this on anything concrete, and certainly not on any inside info via the FS beta programme, but I am expecting FSXI late 2010. Developers will in fact get their 2 years full-on development cycle, except that maybe they might need longer because....

QUOTE

I am still waiting for the freeware developers to get a handle on FSX, which does not seem to be happening. I'm not talking about porting stuff over from FS9 either.
FSX has promised a lot, and it seems this is almost tooo big a bite timewise for the freeware community.[/quote]

...FS2004 was more complex to develop for compared to anything previous, and FSX is more complex than FS2004. That's part of its power, but it does mean that development is a bigger commitment, especially freeware. Yes, FSX loves more complex aircraft, but this adds to the work. Which is why, right now, it seems crazy to me for someone thinking of getting into a project -- aircraft/scenery/whatever, freeware or payware -- to develop for FS2004. You are just handicapping yourself, and it'll make it all the more difficult to take two huge steps next time, rather than one big step today. If you want to contribute, and are just starting out, then get to know today's cutting edge tools. I mentioned Airport Design Editor yesterday -- since then they've updated this again, and if I was thinking of getting into scenery design today, this is a beautiful way to do it. This is what we all dreamed about for years, one tool which can do 90% of the work. (Airports, specifically.)

GMAX is another tool which many developers took one look at and ran. Yet GMAX itself hasn't changed in 5 years, so those who took the plunge early on can still work full-speed for FSX. (GMAX hasn't changed, but of course SP changes to FSX did change the rules a bit...) And those who were waiting for a simpler tool are still waiting. If you decided right now to learn to model an aircraft or scenery, you may have to spend 6 months learning the basics, which is a big chunk out of the FS development cycle, but you'd be six months ahead of anyone who decided there just wasn't time to learn.

(I've used 'you' a lot here, of course meaning the collection 'you', rather than you, Charl:)

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:57 pm

by Alex

I'd hope that NZFF isn't regarded as just a place for FS9 (or FSX alone for that matter); what members use defines what the feeling of the board is - there isn't any 'official' position on which sim NZFF caters for. Like I said, whatever the users of NZFF use is what influences the entire board...

If there's more FSX users (which there will be, inevitably), then things will become more FSX-oriented. As the current position stands, a large part of the more frequent posters still use FS9 frequently, so things are focused more on that at the moment.

Alex

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:18 pm

by ardypilot

I think it's more of a case of not being able to teach old dogs new tricks- although, with due time, I'm sure everyone will find themselves upgrading. I'm pretty content with FS9 at the moment, but lately have found myself spending less and less time using it because I am running out of ideas for flights... in the future when there are more FSX addons available, I'm sure I will find myself buying the game and having a lot of fun with it.

QUOTE

With some notable exceptions, aircraft in particular are stuck in some early-FS9 time warp - even the ARNZ repaints are done on stock MS planes, (often mis-identified), as they are all that's available.[/quote]
That's another thing that gets me, the fictional paints, along with the great sandy NZ desert, make it all a bit 'arcadey', and since the idea behind flight simulators are to simulate reality, I see it as a good reason to wait until a much wider variety addons become available to achieve this.

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:04 pm

by jastheace

Well for me there is 2 big reasons for sticking with FS9,

1. FSPassengers, until Dan has finished his update (or should i say complete rebuild) i will not be going to FSX,

2. the percevied computation requirments, but now creator has mentioned his setup, i might hzave to reconsider this, as i have a 2.8 pentium runnning 1.5gb ram and a 512mb 6600gt video card, i might have to buy fgsx and try it on this and see how she goes

I think long trem wise, FS9 will be a nice backstop for payware developers who are develpoing products for FSX, as it will give them some income stream while they are developing there new products, i am one who is buying the FS9 products at a cheaper price, and then if i move i can get a cheaper price on the FSX versions, if applicable, but i am dreading the day i have to tell the wife i need extra money to rebuy my products that i own now because i have upgraded the sim!!! at leats my saitek yoke and pedals won't need to be upgraded!!

just my 2c worth

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:09 pm

by Charl

ALPHASIM have gotten the message, and put out an FS9-only Cessna 170at reasonable cost (NZD23)
I've bought it on principle, delightful little aircraft.
Reminds me of Bill Lyons Tripacer

Edit:
Oh, and some dude has figured out how to up the polygon count in FS9 to over 80,000 so there goes the aircraft base, back to the previous sim...

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:28 pm

by Ian Warren

Again its only the brilliant paywares that dont port across to X thats going to keep FS9 in my home , CLOUD9 Phantom ! thats brilliant .. not given up on that one B-)

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:38 pm

by creator2003

LOL oh i trhink you guys have got more to learn about making FSX work for you just like in any sim before you had work to do things to learn ,i think the main thing is that none of you want or dont have the time to do it so its up to people like myself and arnz robin timmo and many others to do it all for you ,though like i do , when there is something i want i do or have in fsx i do it myself not wait till others do it for me ...
i didnt really want this to become another fs9 fsx but its turned that way alittle over the last lot of posts ,i can say right now you would drop dead to see how my sim runs FSX and how it looks so much better than your super fs9 install ...
ive ported built and thrown everything at it like any real hardcore simmer ,this coming from the one who said hed never move on and got hassled daily by the cool group to let FS9 go ,,lol now i find myself defending its use to the same lot of people ,oh how things turn out ...
put the effort in and you will see how it kicks butt on Fs9
i will and have moved on from FS9 and will not unless i am payed for it design or place anything again in FS9 ,i am one of the very little designers here in NZ that give my work away for free ,i did alot for FS9 found ways around the impossible but again ive moved on and if you want to move to the future and free stuff you will too...

simple we all like something for free and i no longer supply that stuff for you and all the others that known what im talking about will do the same for the greater good of FSIM in New Zealand and the world ,,lol there is a bigger picture here that you mite see when you feel like there is more out there ...

i know i go on a bit and im sorry for it but you will see how this will effect all of your simming in the future ..we are moving so i guess you will have to aswell unless you guys learn something yourself

Gmax /autodesk 3Dmax yes yes yes what else is there if you want to be the top of the pile and the best of the best ...

ill wait and never give up for you guys to catch the train and join the ones that have seen the light coming through the clouds of Godzone ..

Change is a everyday event get use to it fellas

this is a opinion its not a war and its only my opinion on this subject ..
if we want greener lands we make it not moan about it if we want more get off your butt and goggle how to do it as a designer and long time member of this forum ill always help anyone that puts the effort in to design for FSX if they need it ,just PM id say anyone of us if you need help thats what its all about ..

as Ian has said JUST DO IT

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:09 pm

by Ian Warren

JUST DO IT yeah JUST DO IT yeah ... getting in the beat :lol:

..... Mike you play the piano , Ill sing it YEAH :unsure:

JUST DO IT :groupwave:

............Thankyou , Thankyou love FS9-FSX

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:30 pm

by Charl

Yeah...actually this thread could just be merged with the Ford/Holden one, and make about as much sense.
Da-Dum-Da-Dum

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:02 pm

by creator2003

Oh ofcourse id expect a answer like that ,so PC and if its not working for ya change and trash it .. ive seen this so many times before ,with ya,s heavy hand and fancy words and just wait for the boys to jump on board and ruin and brain wash the ppls that really want to listen to the words of ppls who actully know whats going on and can see from many more points of view than just acouple ..its sad this happens when the power is taken away from that group ..
pick on it all you like but the commuity will soon see over the posts that have been made in many treads that there is more to what i and the other knowledgable ones have posted ..
holden vs ford well that is nothing like this subject and it has alot of good stuff in it ,but i suppose that mite be over some of our heads ..
fs9 fsx whats the future ,not oh ford or holden is better ,i think the subject has been changed abit over acouple of posts and like many have said its not about that really ...

before this turns into war again ,i think we should take alook at what has been said ,from the people who mite or have been in this for along time ,im happy to just keep on going as there is lots to show you
i mite even get of my butt and release Hamilton /Np taupo and all the others that work just fine in FSX and show you just how much you are missing ,
im building in Oz as they lap it up and give me a hand to help build there world up "what do you think im in Oz for "lol they are non downing of any post made in a opinion they want there world better than it is now so they work towards it together ..this is something we as a community need to do more instead of moaning and making posts like that ..
Frenzy is a perfect exsample of it ,i thought from the beginings it was to build for FSX and make nz something to work towards ,so i made and built Airports all in a two week period then the brakes where put on by alot of talk and no do ,well thats just the same as fs9 fsx here on these forums ,i am the first to admit i had it all wrong and ive tryed to make good to what i made bad and are helping to build the next future simming experance ..
I suppose i could just back out and help the Ozzys from now on but what would that do for scenery and freeware for NZ ,some would say nothing ..
Oh well guys i know some will see this for what it is some will just try to put it all down or just delete my posts ..
ive only meant to mean good in everyway ,and if ive offend you im sorry it was not meant to come out like that ,i do this for you i dont get payed for it and i only have most simmers best intrest at heart for the future of FS in Nz and these forums

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:45 pm

by Timmo

The FSX desert will be fixed....stay tuned

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:01 pm

by jastheace

well i have been convinced, i am going to get FSX tommorow, now which one to get, Deluxe or standard? let me know, i am leaning towards the deluxe version. will keep you posted on updates and install!!!

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:24 pm

by NZ255

Basicaly, Deluxe has more...stuff.

Must have if you'll be designing