NZFF

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:15 am**

Some questions for real pilots?

I’ve been practicing to land a spitfire with the bad weather and wind turned all the way up.

It’s a 60/40 thing, the only way I can get it down in a severe cross wind is to crab in at 60 degrees to the runway, the spit will not straighten with just an engine idle, then just before it touches, I kill the flaps, hit hard rudder and rev the engine for a brief second, then when it touches, I turn with the wind and go careering off the runway, if I try stay on the tar, the right windward wing will come up and flip.

BTW Scrubby’s spitfires are brilliant, have exhaust smoke, you get contrails at 20000 feet, they fantastic, also the closest to getting a plane to stall spin that I’ve seen as well, which I’m kind of disappointed in, FS doesn’t feel anything like a real spin, but he seems not to have made them for X ;(

Anyway, here’s the question, the ATC controller is telling me to land on runway 31, but if I landed on runway 12 it would be a piece of cake.
In the game you can’t say, listen I might turn your airport into another lockerbie, I need runway 12, while Katrina is on your runway?
So in real life, has that happened to any of you guys, they asking for the impossible, what do you do, go to another airport, or ask them?

Then another thing, sometimes I’m on the right and they will say, go left downwind, which means I’m crossing through the glide path, has that happened to you, what do you do in real life?

The gliders feel exactly like the real thing, I tried the real thing and the guy crapped on my head because I kept pushing the nose down, I just couldn’t believe that the thing still wanted to fly, feels like someone ripped the control cables out and replaced them with rubber bands, its all mushy

Then again the state that dented piece of tin was in probably had me psyched from the get go.

Anyway… what do the real pilots do when they think the controller has got it wrong, also, in really bad weather where the visibility is like a Â¼ mile, what happens in real life when they ask you if you can see the plane, and you cant even see your wing?

I’m wondering how the real conversations go… amazing “game”.

Thx

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:28 am**

WannaBeBarn wrote:
QUOTE (WannaBeBarn @ Dec 14 2009, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some questions for real pilots?

Iâ€™ve been practicing to land a spitfire with the bad weather and wind turned all the way up.

Itâ€™s a 60/40 thing, the only way I can get it down in a severe cross wind is to crab in at 60 degrees to the runway, the spit will not straighten with just an engine idle, then just before it touches, I kill the flaps, hit hard rudder and rev the engine for a brief second, then when it touches, I turn with the wind and go careering off the runway, if I try stay on the tar, the right windward wing will come up and flip.

BTW Scrubbyâ€™s spitfires are brilliant, have exhaust smoke, you get contrails at 20000 feet, they fantastic, also the closest to getting a plane to stall spin that Iâ€™ve seen as well, which Iâ€™m kind of disappointed in, FS doesnâ€™t feel anything like a real spin, but he seems not to have made them for X ;(

Anyway, hereâ€™s the question, the ATC controller is telling me to land on runway 31, but if I landed on runway 12 it would be a piece of cake.
In the game you canâ€™t say, listen I might turn your airport into another lockerbie, I need runway 12, while Katrina is on your runway?
So in real life, has that happened to any of you guys, they asking for the impossible, what do you do, go to another airport, or ask them?

you can request another runway, however if they originally didnt give you the most appropriate runway for wind conditions then one would assume they had a very good reason to give you that runway. obviously if no other runway is available you would quite possibly have to go to your alternate.

Then another thing, sometimes Iâ€™m on the right and they will say, go left downwind, which means Iâ€™m crossing through the glide path, has that happened to you, what do you do in real life?

It has never happened to me but if that is what they tell you to do, you just have to read it back and do it. from my experience ATC in New Zealand is quite onto it and wouldn't make you cross the path of a 777 on finals,

The gliders feel exactly like the real thing, I tried the real thing and the guy crapped on my head because I kept pushing the nose down, I just couldnâ€™t believe that the thing still wanted to fly, feels like someone ripped the control cables out and replaced them with rubber bands, its all mushy
Then again the state that dented piece of tin was in probably had me psyched from the get go.

Anywayâ€¦ what do the real pilots do when they think the controller has got it wrong, also, in really bad weather where the visibility is like a Â¼ mile, what happens in real life when they ask you if you can see the plane, and you cant even see your wing?

say "traffic in sight"... joke. you can just say looking for traffic (in which the controller understands you cannot see the aircraft as yet) or just let the controller know that your in IMC.

Iâ€™m wondering how the real conversations goâ€¦ amazing â€œgameâ€.

Thx

i hope this helps you somewhat, happy contrails

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:43 am**

I never bothered with the flightsim ATC - it's so far from reality that I didn't really see the point.

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:44 pm**

Edit Voicepack helps, still ATC lacks realism in FS alot

Posted: **Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:40 pm**

WannaBeBarn wrote:
QUOTE (WannaBeBarn @ Dec 14 2009, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Anywayâ€¦ what do the real pilots do when they think the controller has got it wrong, also, in really bad weather where the visibility is like a Â¼ mile, what happens in real life when they ask you if you can see the plane, and you cant even see your wing?

There are set rules and regulations so that it doesn't happen. If it does happen then its usually not your responsibility as a pilot to look out for other traffic etc.

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:35 pm**

"Anywayâ€¦ what do the real pilots do when they think the controller has got it wrong..."

whinge, #####, moan, nag, complain, tell you how they should be number one despite the one ahead being 30knots faster and 2 miles closer to the runway... etc etc etc

when you get it right all year long - not a word
get it wrong just once! ..................

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:18 pm**

towerguy wrote:
QUOTE (towerguy @ Dec 15 2009, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Anyway… what do the real pilots do when they think the controller has got it wrong..."

whinge, #####, moan, nag, complain, tell you how they should be number one despite the one ahead being 30knots faster and 2 miles closer to the runway... etc etc etc

when you get it right all year long - not a word
get it wrong just once! ..................

Ha ha, the other side of the coin… thanks.

Actually I remember seeing a documentary on these mega airport traffic controllers and they reckoned its one of the most stressful jobs in the world.
I imagine peak hour traffic with a million highways and when everyone has really bad brakes will do that to you.

I’ve become a sim addict, got the ILS and VOR down now, but I was wondering what ‘intersections’ are on the map, is that just like a point in space, is that why they say, “Blah blah… On Zulu”, its like saying I’m going via 5th street?

Last night I figured out how to put landing pads on top of buildings and ship decks, so that’s at least another week of fun and games.

I’m discovering that the tools really flipped from 2004 to X and there’s an incompatibility chasm between every damn version… typical Microsoft, and I think that’s a really bad mistake.
I found two little spitfires that I love, but there is no X for them… so I’m not moving.
Beside that, once I got landing pads on every building there is no way I’m starting again with different tools.

The other thing that I’d like to see them do is put a camera on the pilot, because I really am getting the urge to get out of the plane and go walk around the others, or just sit on the side and watch the traffic. The eyes should be on a mobile pilot as well.
I was thinking that someone should make an aircraft called, “man” with superman type controls that lets one go anywhere easily.

And they must add google earth type navigation for people that just want to check out the little planet, for designers, etc… it’s a terrible mission slewing all over the place.
Bob I want to show you this mountain I flew over, have you got an hour while I get there again… it’s a problem.

Otherwise its absolute magic… my own little world, but I don’t think I’m ever going to X, even if they gave it away, too much redo time.

What I think so far anyway, magic game but Gates has screwed up the biz model

Posted: **Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:30 pm**

1. Landing a Spitfire in a 'severe' crosswind is not recommended. 10 - 15 knots x-wind would be pushing it, leave it in the hangar.
Raising the flaps on touchdown is not going to help you much. Full flaps in a Spitfire is alot of drag which will be better for the landing roll than retracting them,
diverting your attention from flying the aircraft. Extend them as appropriate and leave them there until your clear of the active runway.
At approach speeds with a strong x-wind the rudder will be less effective thus a bit of power to straighten up will provide airflow over the rudder and elevator
allowing you more control.
Plan to crab the aircraft to about 6 feet above the ground then simultaneously apply power and rudder to straighten up and roll into the wind but take care not
to over roll and strike the wingtip. Fly the aircraft on a the 3 point attitude and use full rudder and differential braking as required tIR track the centre line.
Don't float in the flare. You'll drift off the runway and be forced to roll to much and end up over controlling. If you have sideways drift at touchdown, go around.

2. IRL you can request anything you want from ATC. If they can accommodate you then they will. They are there to provide a service to arriving and departing
aircraft. If you request something which is not consistent with the other traffic or the prevailing conditions then you may not get your request.
Towers are full of met equipment showing the controllers which runway is favourable. Unless its gusty, swinging winds under a passing storm cell, they'll
be using the best runway. FS unfortunately isn't quite so good at it.

3. If you are flying a poor visibility or intermittent IMC and ATC knows this then they will not ask you to maintain visual separation from traffic. But it is ALWAYS
the responsibility of the pilot to maintain separation from other traffic, even in a radar environment. The safety of the aircraft ultimately rests with the pilot in
command, period. But if you can't do something or can't see something then you just have to say so and ATC will manage the situation accordingly.
It may mean a delay in the worst case but generally they make it happen.

Posted: **Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:51 am**

nzav8tor wrote:
QUOTE (nzav8tor @ Dec 15 2009, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
1. Landing a Spitfire in a 'severe' crosswind is not recommended. 10 - 15 knots x-wind would be pushing it, leave it in the hangar.
Raising the flaps on touchdown is not going to help you much. Full flaps in a Spitfire is alot of drag which will be better for the landing roll than retracting them,
diverting your attention from flying the aircraft. Extend them as appropriate and leave them there until your clear of the active runway.
At approach speeds with a strong x-wind the rudder will be less effective thus a bit of power to straighten up will provide airflow over the rudder and elevator
allowing you more control.
Plan to crab the aircraft to about 6 feet above the ground then simultaneously apply power and rudder to straighten up and roll into the wind but take care not
to over roll and strike the wingtip. Fly the aircraft on a the 3 point attitude and use full rudder and differential braking as required tIR track the centre line.
Don't float in the flare. You'll drift off the runway and be forced to roll to much and end up over controlling. If you have sideways drift at touchdown, go around.

Thanks, but try it on FS, try landing a spit in a full cross wind... the textbook stuff goes out the window, you flying on pure gut instinct.

And yes, I think so too, a pilot that doesn’t question the tower, or if feeling uncomfortable, doesn’t say, look I'm going to another airport, is not one you want to be in a plane with... probably just too difficult to do in a simulator, and that leaves a whole other area for FS designers to explore, why not have a control tower, you friend on the network is the tower, then you could argue like hell

There is so so so much MS could do with this technology, I just can’t believe Gates is shutting it down, its a travesty.

I’m new and playing catch up, but here’s my bet, come 2011 google will release a FS “world” done right with trains, boats, racing like (need for speed), and they will make billions, I imagine that’s where all the ex MS designers are headed.

Beginning to really wonder about Microsoft, I always suspected that the real brains behind the company was Paul Allen, when he sold his shares it was the beginning of the end. Actually if you want to see an interesting movie, hard to get and banned in many countries, find a movie called Silicon Valley Pirates, the real MS story, Paul Allen is the real brains, what he couldn’t do, Gates stole

I’m happy because I can get my spitfire down on carrier landing decks… no braking hook.
I imagine those guys that put down F14 Tomcats on carriers must get whiplash, the thing comes in at 180 knots and flies like a brick.

Its a damn shame, this is the type of technology that once you lose your team, you might never recover... Gates and Bummer!

thanks…