New Zealand and X-Plane

[Ian Warren]

After being gifted P3DV3 by Greg and Marty, I have seriously seen this is the Flight Simulation to have, speaking to Doug on TS yesterday and I look at dates , January next year is my 21st years building on Microsoft Flight Simulation tho it took years to be posted due the internet back then (what the hells is this internet also back then) , Now with a D/load I have P3D and X-Plane is going down the gurgler , ... LOCKHEED MARTIN saw the potential , and yes there are many area's that are fixed ...

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Before you discount X-Plane, Laminar Research has announced that X-Plane 11 is going to be released next month - and it's a game-changer.



Check it out here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bpSR-AKncQ

[Ian Warren]

Looks OK , I did have a chuckle and a , they do recon the best flight dynamics of any flight simulator yet , I think they are pulling someones leg here ... The Space Shuttle from the time it comes out off re-entry blackout its only 12 minutes before landing and still travel at 8275 MPH , it then has a step flare till 83,200 ft slowing it to 1,700 MPH with only 86 seconds to land it then approach's the runway at a 22° glide slope nose down , then at 14 seconds before touchdown at 270 it pulls it nose up to 1.5° angle up 12 seconds the under-cart comes down and touch down speed of 215 MPH ..... 'Its a flying Brick' .... other big thing, it dose not have flashing strobe lights ...

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I don't know what really could be the problem with X-Plane, Ian. I do accept and welcome that there is a following for MSFS, FSX and latterly, P3D. And I wouldn't even want to even attempt to compare these titles with X-Plane. After all - there are many others on the internet who would do this far more convincingly and comprehensively than I could, if you wanted to search...

However, one major point has been overlooked by virtually everyone who brings up the "which simulator is better than which":

Ultimately, they're all only simulators.

Not real, but quite authentic, nonetheless. And they all do a very good job, given the money you pay for the product and the limitations of the hardware we run them on.

I think we should instead look at this from another perspective - that it should be about the enjoyment and experience of the simulation, regardless of who wrote the program.

[Ian Warren]

I was not knocking it , It was great to see another choice out there , old days I had every sim released , it just the Space Shuttle that made me laugh , flying along like a regular airliner, still no word on photo real scenery material able to go in ?

[toprob]

I don't know what really could be the problem with X-Plane, Ian. I do accept and welcome that there is a following for MSFS, FSX and latterly, P3D. And I wouldn't even want to even attempt to compare these titles with X-Plane. After all - there are many others on the internet who would do this far more convincingly and comprehensively than I could, if you wanted to search...

However, one major point has been overlooked by virtually everyone who brings up the "which simulator is better than which":

Ultimately, they're all only simulators.

Not real, but quite authentic, nonetheless. And they all do a very good job, given the money you pay for the product and the limitations of the hardware we run them on.

I think we should instead look at this from another perspective - that it should be about the enjoyment and experience of the simulation, regardless of who wrote the program.

All correct, but it doesn't really come down to which is the best, and which simulator can do what... the reality is that Xplane doesn't have the user base of the others, especially here in NZ. This could change, but really there's no sign of it yet -- developers have to come first, and at some point people will start following. Or not. FSX is still the defacto standard, and there is a definite drift to Prepar3d -- users like Ian, who just have to try it to love it, but it sounds like it took a bit of an intervention to get him there:) To me, it's natural that FSX will give way to Prepar3d, but I don't really see the same thing happening with Xplane. XP11 might get there one day. Personally, I don't have the time or resources to try it at the moment, and I think that a lot of simmers are in my position.

This really comes down to human nature, there have always been great products which have been killed simply because the competition was louder and cheekier -- the Betamax principle. I've been down that road a few times, things like HD-DVD, which was in most respects better than Bluray, but didn't stand a chance against the marketing power of the corporate Bluray backers. Then there's my Windows phone, which is basically a dead platform, even though it's better than any other platform. They will need to pry that from my cold dead hands before I go Apple or Google, but I'm fully aware that this is an eccentricity of an old man, most sensible people wouldn't even consider a Windows phone...

One day I'll retire and I'll be sitting there at my computer thinking that I'm bored with the simulator, why not try X-plane now that I'm immeasurably wealthy:) and have time on my hands. I'll probably love it.

[Ian Warren]

Rob .. buy a SAMSUNG .. that will blow your mind .. and pocket and maybe even cook your tea ..... plus

[toprob]

Rob .. buy a SAMSUNG .. that will blow your mind .. and pocket and maybe even cook your tea ..... plus

Samsung actually make a couple of Windows phones, but generally they are Google/Android, which I'd never use. You can only sell your soul once, and I've sold mine to Microsoft, so Google can't have it....

[Ian Warren]

I really don't know about hand held communicators ... I've still got a box on the wall with a handle I have to whined to speekee to the operator to get me plugged into the other end.

Sorta now I'll keep all my box'd simulators on the shelf, it would have been interesting to see the different graphics if they still worked, I have the X-plane and seen the interface and it is messy for a start or least be a couple or three hours to get it working to operations familiar with FSX and found P3D is also the same but even friendlier with control setup.

I think it was what every was saying how the X-dynamics was so much better on many other forums, displaying the 'Space Shuttle' may have been a big WHOOPS! since I was with the New Zealand Space Camp Team since 1989 and one sorta gets to know how it works ... I guess you want to since there is a 9ft tall behemoth standing here in my Mancave.

COOL

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Your comments really surprise me, Robin.

I thought that this was why I'd posted here in the first place - to encourage others within (and outside) the community to look at X-Plane, or to help develop or even share their work or projects to create a more realistic environment.

It certainly is great to get the positive feedback regarding what is being achieved by our community, but it shouldn't come down to comparing which simulator is better, or even speaking on others' behalf by saying that they may not have the time to try or support X-Plane.

You're a developer who has a great deal of expertise - and experience - in supporting MSFS and FSX. And therefore, you are one of the people you mentioned who indeed could make a difference.

In previous posts in this topic and in many private messages, I have asked for your personal assistance and guidance to help create a viable, realistic landscape within X-Plane. The conversion from FSX/P3D to X-Plane is a relatively easy task, so very little if any coding is required. Even AFCADs can be ported across without major editing. Instead, I have found myself starting this project from scratch by making and texturing my own Auckland objects (such as the Harbour Bridge complete with flowing traffic, the city skyline and NZAA) - a very time-consuming and laborious task- even though you'd freely distributed older versions of your SuperCity package to the MSFS and FSX community.

What you're implying is a catch-22: if there's no product, there's no interest. Or, in other words - "why should I invest my time creating scenery when nobody has attempted to do so before? I really do understand that you'd prefer some form of renumeration for your work. But, with anything marketable, what's needed is a HOOK. And to create a taste of what can be offered is one of the best forms of advertising out there. If you've got an old- and free - scenery package that's readily downloadable by the community, why not convert it across to X-Plane and test the response?

X-Plane does have a bustling commercial aspect as well, and consumers do purchase quality packages aimed at enhancing their flying experience. I, for one, have spent plenty of money purchasing products such as Aerosoft's incredibly detailed Heathrow for X-Plane, photorealistic terrain for the entire United Kingdom, realistic world airline traffic movements, cloud enhancement plugins and meticulously created aircraft. So, it's evident that there is a market for quality add-ons.

There are many within the community, however (Tony and myself included) who are keen to develop add-ons to others for free, as long as they're happy to use them. I'm not asking for money for the efforts I put in - I'd just like people to share in the work that I've put together. And that's a very satisfying experience to me. I've got a successful job, so the financial aspect hasn't been something I've contemplated pursuing.

Ian, I agree. X-Plane is a complicated beast. Laminar Research had done a great job of putting together a simulator that recreates effects such as prop-wash on wing surfaces, wing-over stalls (taking propellor torque into consideration), and the specific aerodynamics associated with ab airfoil (or - if it won't fly in real life, it won't fly in the sim). But it's a clunky interface, it had a very basic ATC aspect, and XP10's "plausible environment" that was available out-of-the-box was far from it. I was always attracted to realism, but their object placement engine wasn't immersive enough.

But these are issues that have been or are currently being addressed. Gone are the days of living with low resolution mesh and pretend cities. We've now got perfect renditions of airports, complete with support vehicles, animated ground crew, pushbacks and moving gates. And the skies are filled with global air traffic, flying over high resolution photorealistic scenery and through realistic METAR-downloadable weather.in a 4K environment (if your computer's fast enough...) What more could we hope for?

And that's just with X-Plane 10.50. A very fair video comparison between this version of X-P and P3D is shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6jEAcJ37ko

The next generation, X-Plane 11, removes the cumbersome interface, and will replace it with a more intuitive system of navigating through every setting. It also has a completely rewritten graphics engine that addresses metallic objects, lights, fog and reflections (as seen in the above posted video link). There will be a free demo available for XP11 very soon, so you can decide for yourself.

The bottom line is that X-Plane is still being developed, and it's not going anywhere. And it has a very, very large following.

Ultimately, this is a New Zealand Flight Sim Forum - and my wish was to make this community aware of the work we've achieved to enhance their simulation experience on X-Plane. We've already got HD Mesh covering the entire NZ landscape, and Tony is doing an incredible job perfecting the high resolution photo scenery and OSM objects for the whole country. And many individuals have submitted bespoke airports and objects to create a more realistic countryside.

So, I would again like to put out an invitation to ask others here, if anyone is willing to help. We all would really appreciate your assistance!

Cheers,


Aaron.

[Ian Warren]

I think looking at sites , example: Flightsim.com there are many looking at this Flight Simulator, you see that everyday with new postings and is doing far better to all previous other simulators, so it is an option, me working on the .. a base I have designed/built scenery .. well January next year is 21 years, I guess makes hard to change .. then to add get gifted a P3D .. makes it an easy decision at the moment. ... I will be keeping my eyeballs and mind open on this Sim tho ... silly not to.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Well said, Ian!

By the way - here's some photos of an unfinished NZAA, with basic textures and placements. Still loads to do:

- light placement
- building tweaks (adjust windows, finish frontages, etc.)
- texture remaining buildings
- create night texturing and weathering
- lay out ground support traffic routes
- miscellaneous object placement (bus stops, car parks, perimeter fencing, containers, etc.)
- add Autogate functionality (moving gates)
- high resolution orthophoto placement

Hopefully won't be too far off completion...!

[Ian Warren]

I think Aaron , knocking into Auckland will be a Kudo for many, the cry for the scenery has been calling since the introduction of FSX .. I put my hand up well over a decade back for photo textures .. simply no one come to the party .. so least your doing better here.

[toprob]

I will say that when Xplane scenery is done well, it is brilliant -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op4uA8OrP7k

If I saw some New Zealand scenery which looked like that, then I might be intrigued.

One of the problems I have with Xplane is the way the mesh is rendered -- hills and mountains look kind of... it's hard to explain, but it looks like there are a few vertices which are controlled by Bezier curves, and I've never seen anything like that in reality. That isn't to say that the way in which FSX/Prepar3d displays mesh is great, it could do with a huge improvement, but at least it gives random pointy bits on mountains, and non-smoothed slopes on hills.

There are a lot of things which Xplane does better, like water, and one of the reasons why I prefer photo scenery is that the way in which FSX handles vector roads etc is pretty basic and ugly, but I've yet to see a nice realistic piece of New Zealand, or at least something which showed promise.

Sorry, after writing I saw your post about NZAA, I haven't even looked at that yet, so don't take anything I've said here as a reaction to your NZAA:)

When I'm back to earning money, I might finally take the plunge, but until then I really need to see a nice tutorial on making photoscenery from LINZ geotiffs...

Bear in mind that getting people into developing is a long-shot, those who are keen enough to get over the initial learning curve are very few and far between.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Latest NZAA progress report -

International Terminal nearly done! Gates put into place, but Autogate programming still needs to be implemented...

(obviously not had too much spare time, so it's been a little slow-going, i'm afraid...).

Anyway - here are some screenshots at X-Plane 10.51's default resolution (no atmospheric effects or gamma adjustments, no anti-aliasing and weather turned off).

It'll look superb with everything switched on, though...

Now that it's been announced, I'm really looking forward to X-Plane 11, which dramatically improves visual effects, and has a far better interface as well. Maybe that would be the incentive for more FSX/P3D folk to look at the potential of X-Plane.

Cheers,


Aaron.

[Ian Warren]

Starting ro come together quite well, it dose shine with AI traffic in there. job well done so far

[Jinja]

I'm looking forward to this! :-)

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Hi all,

It's been a while since my last update, but I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel - because NZAA is nearly finished!

The buildings are all done, and there's just a little more texturing to do and some objects and fence lines to place.

But I've tested it in the sim, and it works very nicely!


Here's the latest shots:










Cheers!


Aaron.

[Ian Warren]

Looks Good and done

[Jinja]

Wait a minute, is that the Sky Tower I see in the background.