My first day ...scenery design 101

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My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby Splitpin » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:41 pm

I must say, I have a whole new appreciation for the work you scenery wizards do.
I spent a good part of the day with Rob (TopRob) at NZCH .
He is up here doing some final research I suppose for his chch project.
We walked ...and we walked ....photos of everything ...walls, signs, buses, you name it.
Rob explained his method ...if he is going to include it ...he wants to see it ( if he can), so when you taxi your C-130 onto the deep freeze apron , what you see out the window ...is there.
And this is just the ground work .....Im 100% stuffed just following him around and trying to take the info he was passing on.

Top day , Top Rob :thumbup:
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby toprob » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:43 pm

Yes, it was good to put the new apprentice through his paces, although I don't think he was impressed by the hours, working conditions or rate of pay...
Good to have the company today, Marty, just remember that you haven't really lived till you've been trespassed from an airport:)
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby Splitpin » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:01 pm

" you haven't really lived till you've been trespassed from an airport:)" I think we came close today ...did you notice the AVSEC guy follow us into the terminal when we had a coffee ...he just sat there ...no coffee. But its nice to know that , that level of security is in place.
Rob, my phone (walking thing) said we walked 6.3kms .

You really are a sniper with that camera . Looking forward to the next assignment :rockon:
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby Naki » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:40 pm

Awesome....looking forward to Christchurch! Maybe Marty will speed the process up????
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby chopper_nut » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:13 pm

I remember when I fist went to Australia, I was reading through some of the documentation. There was a part that said to be suspicious of anybody photographing aircraft... that combined with a couple of run ins that I’ve had with AVSEC at a couple of airports in NZ means that I have no tome whatsoever for ‘aviation security’ at that level
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby NZ255 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:49 pm

Just stick on a high vis and clipboard, you'll have no trouble.

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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby toprob » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:13 pm

Yes, I'm pretty sure that the high-viz would work, but the clipboard is the clincher...
Took the rental car back today, so that's the final photoshoot for NZCH -- just filling in the gaps which I haven't had good shots for. Some changes to the airport since I did the first photoshoot last year, including one major change even since I did the aerial shots last month -- the old 'hangar four' where the small domestic gates are. That was a bit of history, going back to WWII, I think!
A final parting shot, probably won't be included in the scenery:)

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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby emfrat » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:44 pm

HaHa - I remember John Farrie (of UKVFR) was once asked by a new forum member "Where can I get your phonographic scenery?"
Could be a marketing opportunity maybe...
:D
ATB Rob,
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'Propliner' is actually short for 'Proper airliner, with big rumbly radials'

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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby Splitpin » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:56 pm

There was a lady playing that when we first walked past.... :)
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby emfrat » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:00 pm

There was a time when I could get a recognisable tune out of a piano, but not from a seat that put my bum higher than the keyboard :o
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby jpreou » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:40 am

Splitpin wrote:There was a lady playing that when we first walked past.... :)


We'll expect her to be in the sim then, including the tune she was playing...
-- Jeff, Rolleston, NZ
P3Dv4.x and a bunch of add-on stuff... some 'global' products, but otherwise NZ-only
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby toprob » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:36 am

On the way home on the bus, I was thinking about various ways to make it into something with a sim 'panel' with buttons for keys, which you could play with VR hands... however this would be a project for someone who is not me!

I forgot to say that even though the old hangar is gone now, it will be included in the scenery -- along with a few other buildings which have disappeared during the course of my development. People are always asking me when I'd update various airports to include the new features, but really this is never going to happen -- NZCH is a good example of how changes are happening every month/week even, so it would be a full-time job to keep it up to date!
So as always, it's a 'snapshot in time', the time varying depending on whether I took enough photos on my first trip back 12 months ago:)

EDIT: the quote on the piano can really apply to anyone -- for example I'll 'be the reason someone... cries today.'
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby cowpatz » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:25 am

I would have thought that updating scenery to reflect what is there is an opportunity to increase revenue Rob.
What I would really like to see is the ability to purchase various versions of a scenery. Nothing is worse than landing at a default FS airport.
The problem is that there is either no other add on available or the collective cost of purchasing all of the desired airfields is just too high. The problem seems to be exacerbated by the lack of freeware developers in P3D that were relatively prolific in FSX and FS9. Snowmans scenery for example. I guess the quality of the current commercial offerings is now so high that the freeware developers have shied away.
This is a real shame.
What I would like to see is a sort of "lite" version offering that is airfield focused, has an accurate AFCAD, good ground polys, a terminal with just static airbridges maybe and a few other basic features.
This could then be upgraded to have things like SODE air bridges, high res textures, animated ground features, internal terminal detail (not that I am a fan of that) and local area POI etc.
Lets say $15 to $20 for the lite version and another $15 for the Pro version.
This would then allow those on a budget to "go Lite" and have a good and accurate airfield that would be frame rate friendly and allow for accurate online flying. It would also mean that the user could have more airfields for the $$$ and use other add ons, such as GSX, for ground traffic and airbridges
The Pro version would be more for the enthusiasts that want a detailed rendition of their favourite airfield or for GA / VFR flying.
Each of these packages could have future updates that might cost say $10 (less than the price of a beer).
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby toprob » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:47 pm

cowpatz wrote:I would have thought that updating scenery to reflect what is there is an opportunity to increase revenue Rob.

What I was meaning was 'maintaining an existing airport scenery', but I can't really see any way it would pay for itself, short of nickle-and-diming folk for every little update... One project which could have used something like this was my subscription, which was an annual fee -- originally $100 -- for a year's worth of scenery. I could have marketed it differently, but really it never really took off. The idea was to figure out how much my customer base would need to spend to keep me full-speed developing, and really it was $100 at least. Doing the usual scenery development doesn't really come close to giving a proper income (and I'm not talking big income here, just a liveable amount.) It has taken me just over a year to develop Christchurch, but I can't charge that $100 for that -- it's less than half that, so I need to be a lot quicker, and release 2.5 airports a year! Or 5 'lite' airports.

Yes, freeware scenery development is really a thing of the past, there are a lot of reasons -- mostly related to the current 'customer base' -- but here in NZ it was more that tools and techniques change, and those who can only do this as as hobby don't really have the time -- or inclination -- to learn new tools/skills. Expectations are higher now, and a 'normal' scenery can be a lot more complex

Your plan sounds ideal, all you have to do now is to put it into action. I've always been keen to try a 'lite', cheap airport, I just have to find the time. In the past, these were always freeware -- Hokitika, Ashburton, Timaru etc. The problem is the time it takes to build an airport, for me in particular. I have absolutely no interest in doing a generic custom airport, I need to visit the place and only model what is there. This means that very little is 'recycled' from project to project, and it just.... takes.... so.... much.... time! One day I'd like to try spending less time on each, and one of the ways which can bring this about would be a developer-friendly 'base' scenery for the country. Sort of like Orbx, but really they see their scenery (in particular I'm talking about NZNI and NZSI) as a 'stand alone' product, with a certain amount of work done on each airport, so that you could just fly anywhere and see a non-default airport. Then there are their own payware airport releases to match.

There is really no room in their model for third-party airports. Sure, they can't stop developers, but they certainly don't see it adding any value for them.

The true Earth thing which they are likely to do for NZ might be a good base for this, but again they are not going to encourage anyone to do their own thing. Still, we already have one new developer promised for AFS2 -- :cheers: Charl!
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby cowpatz » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:19 pm

Understand all those points. I see "lite" as just being a pass thru on the way to the "Pro" version and it would only really work well for major airports.
The more sceneries and updates produced means staying more in the public eye ....brand recognition/loyalty.
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Re: My first day ...scenery design 101

Postby Charl » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:57 pm

It's a realistic business model.
Drzewiecki Design as I recall put out high-quality limited-feature freeware airports for the likes of VATSIM flyers and casual simmers.
Because you liked it so much, you were always tempted to get the payware version.

When pigs learn to fly, erm, I mean when ORBX produces NZ base scenery, I will only do incredibly complex renditions of airports that will make Mr. Corn's timelines look like warp speed.
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